Dore Westbury 5" machine vice?

Hello,

Does anyone know if the kits for the above are still available? I did a Google search and turned up nothing on suppliers. Maybe there is a machine drawing for them?

I once had the use of one of these vices and found it to be remarkably good.

Regards,

Andrew.

Hi, Model Engineering Supplies also supplied castings for the Quorn and other workshop equipment. A thread some time ago seemed to suggest MES were back up and trading again (was it something to do with Ivan Law's son who now was in charge?)

However they were trading a few years ago but seems only for a short time. The website is defunct and an email address for MES that worked also is defunct.

So it seems that MES has stopped trading, which is a shame as there is still a demand for the Quorn and other very useful workshop equipment.

Maybe someone else know more?

Regards

Derek

Hello Derek,

Thanks for the information. It seems that I am doomed in the search for a kit. Maybe someone has the drawings?

A great pity that both the Quorn and the Dore Westbury vice are no longer kitted, both are well worth making. I was eyeing up the Quorn as a long term project and the Dore vice as a do it now job. Looks like I am out of luck.

Thanks,

Andrew.

Andrew

I think I have one of these kits, which someone else started, in the attic. As far as I remember, only some initial smoothing of flat castings had been done.

I have found the instructions and drawing in the more comfortable environment of the bookshelves!

Viz:

I had to put it in the attic when I saw how they had spelled "vice"

Please sir, why were these so good? And, if I may have another two questions: was the kit of cast iron; and was the design ever published in ME? A quick search seems to tell me no.

Alan

Hello Alan,

It was lowish profile, had a very wide opening and didn't suffer from the usual jaw riding up on tightening. I may have rosy specs, but I was impressed at the time.

Regards,

Andrew.

Not according to the 2005 New Oxford Spelling Dictionary which gives "vise" as US usage.

Arnold Throp recommended getting two of these however spelled (or spelt).

Andrew

There is one on Ebay right now ends in about 3 hours **LINK**

Paul

There are two.

Tony

I was recently looking up details of my Record no. 3 and 4 vices, and noticed that earlier in the century, British manufacturers used vice, but Parkinson, Shipley, Yorkshire consistently used vise (1940 catalogue, also elsewhere). I would say previous to that, I have only seen 'vice' spelling in British documents, but going back further (farther) who knows? Woodworker/metalworker differences, like G-cramp/clamp (and trying not to mention C-clamp).

Bill

I was never under it. Try a sense of humour.

Practice and practise are both permissible.

Mike

Bill Davies 2:

My 1939 Tom Senior catalogue has Parkinson's "Vises" whilst Brown Brothers 1933 has illustrations of these so marked, but under the heading "Vice"! Was either word cast in to the tool concerned and, if so, were the patterns ever changed to reflect what seems to have been a change in usage?

The authoritative Salaman's Dictionary of Tools (1975) has vice throughout and for clamp "see cramp" (this book is mainly concerned with woodworking tools).

In school woodwork class we used G cramps and a clamp was length of grooved timber applied to the end of a board to help keep it flat.

To get back to Derek's original request my Dore Westbury vice is as per Robbo's drawing.

In retrospect a proper machine vice would be of far more benefit. As Robbo comments the original design has very low jaws and profile.

Cheers,

Julian

These were done as a kit of parts in an era before we had cheap imports and MES were one of the first to cater to the hobby.

A fair bit of thought was put into these vices by Ivan Law given they were made for the Dore Westbury which other than the Tom Senior and the first influx of the very badly made Rong Fu's were the only machines a Model Engineer had access to other than the vertical slide on a lathe. Even the Amolco add ones were very expensive for the day.

They were made low profile to fit the DW mill as most model engineers are only working with small lumps but the nice design was the tongue on the moveable jaw that slid under the fixed jaw to stop lifting.

Even today, size for size not many small vices can match the MES vice for capacity given it's size.

Until I saw John's post i was going to add that the long guide plate is what makes it so good as it combats jaw lift.

It is likely that the MES Quorn castings will be available from another source soon. My guess is that, if there is demand, other MES castings may follow from the same source.

OED says its from the French 'vis'. I guess the USA probably use the original spelling and the 'vice' spelling probably merged with the 'failing' meaning in the UK.

"vis" meaning screw, of course, making the distinction from earlier wedge-based holding devices.

If castings can't be found a version glued'n screwed together from stock sections looks pretty easy to sort out if chomping the base from solid is a bit too much for your mill. Obviously you still need to machine all mating surfaces for accuracy and good fit but it doesn't seem a major chore.

Do it the neat freak way with countersunk socket heads from underneath into blind holes doing the screw bit and who is gonna know without a close look. I'd not be doing with short blind holes. Just run right through and knock the protruding threaded ends off during clean up machining. Probably need to be a bit thicker than the original, maybe 1/4" to 3/8" to get decent thread lengths and screw seats. Which hardly seems a major issue.

Screw in tension of course, pulling from the back, with decent cleanly surfaced and well lubricated thrust washers. Not jut run on the body. Needle roller thrust washers without the needles work well being noticeably smoother than a simple machined step running on the body.

If you do make one from scratch seriously consider making it replaceable jaw style with a stash of soft ones and a couple with Vees in horizontal or vertical planes. But do them when you make it! Soft jaws for my machine vices would be easy to do but I never get round to making a stash and no time mid job so always work-around and second best solution time.

The major issue with the Dore Westbury design compared to many conventional vice designs is that there is no central aperture so drilling through holes is pretty much out. But it's lower profile, very resistant to jaw lift and much wider opening. Yer pays yer money and makes yer choice.

Clive.