C. H. Joyce Drill Press

This drill has a brass plate marked: " C.H. Joyce, Engineers Tools, London S.E." - I think that may be the name of the distributor rather than the manufacturer. I plan to buy new belts for it and get it working, driven by an electric motor, I am puzzled by the belt tensioning arrangement. It looks like if the top belt is tightened the bottom belt will go slack. Please can anyone give an explanation?

If it moves the pulley sideways it will tighten both belts?

Neil

Hello Richard,

​Surely the top set of jockey pulleys are mounted on a short stalk that goes into the angled housing, moving that outward would tension the top belt.

​Unless the very lowest mounting near the floor can rise and fall on the column, or has a build in eccentric shaft mounting, then tensioning that belt must be by shortening the belt and refitting the serrated belt clips again, a rather tedious and hit and miss way of going about it.

​The mid point mounting is I think fixed, so everything is relative to that position.

​Regards Brian

Richard - Is there not a clamping screw at the base of the upper section? If so, I would have thought that the top portion can be adjusted up and down on the lower part to adjust tension on the main belt and the upper tension would be adjusted as per Brian's first para above.

rgds

Bill

Thanks for your replies.

Neil, None of the pulleys can move sideways.

Brian, The stalk that holds the top pulleys is part of the casting so cannot move. The only adjustment I have found is the lever that can be operated to slacken the mounting of the central pulley shaft and allow it to be moved up or down, tending to tighten one belt and loosen the other. When this lever is in the "loose" position the pulley shaft droops slightly, slackening the lower belt, which could be useful for changing speeds. The bottom shaft is fixed: it cannot be moved up or down and does not have an eccentric mounting.

Bill, There is a square headed bolt in the base of the upper section. I have tried loosening it but could not move the upper section or rotate it. I suppose it could be rusted in place.

Well, I got it to work. I made the new flat belts as short as I dared and mounted the motor on a hinged platform so that the v-belt can be tensioned and swapped between pulleys. For the flat belts the required length is indeed the same over all three speeds and it is possible to get enough slack to change speed by loosening the central shaft using the lever. It is possible to obtain the following speeds: 146, 211, 292, 422, 583 & 843 rpm. Not exactly in line with modern notions of HSE but it runs with an impressive whirring and clanking sound.

Why would anyone bother with things like this when you can buy a good drill for so little?

Because it looks nice, and modern ones don't; and because there is satisfaction in getting old machines rescued from potential scrap, and working again.

That's why I have an old Centec mill and Progress drill lurking in my workshop waiting for me bringing them back to life again...........

Larry, have you no romance or compassion in you!

Back in the 70's I repaired sewing machines for a certain company. I had more satisfaction restoring/repairing the old treadle and hand machines than ever I could get from the new 'chip' (NE555) all singing, all dancing machines.

Good on yer', David!!!

Colin.

On the H&S aspect, the majority of the pulleys wouldn't concern me personally, but unless you're folically challenged, I'd be tempted to arrange a basic curved sheet metal guard for the front of the top pulley.

It might just save getting scalped.

Lovely old machine and a joy to have in the shed, even if it takes a bit of tinkering.

What is that long pinch-bolt sticking out the side of the base just above floor level? Is that some kind of adjustment to move the whole pillar up and down, thus tensioning the bottom belt?

Motorbikes of the same era were similarly fiddly to adjust the chains. To adjust the primary (engine to gearbox) chain you moved the gearbox back in the frame. Which of course meant you had to then move the back wheel back to adjust the slack out of the back chain. They had more time to fiddle about with things in those days as the internet had not been invented.

I stand corrected !! I agree these old machines have a certain attraction,like old traction engines,nice to look at,just outdated.Having said that,I have little for these new fancy machines with all the bells and whistles [and micro chips ],great while they are working but not so good when the chip gets cooked. All my machines are belt driven except the mill which is gear drive. Not much to go wrong there.I agree that a guard of some kind might be a good idea since a slap in the face from a broken belt is not nice,you could end up looking like Scarface.

Regarding those old treadle machines,there are still quite a few of them around over here. They say they are better for heavy work which the new light machines dont like.

Sorry if I rattled someones cage,that was not my intention.

Hi Larry, my cage is rattle proof!! I'm too old in the tooth to let things bother me. My comment was tongue in cheek (hence the smilley!) as I'm sure that yours was also.

And you are right, those old machines were built like the proverbial brick built convenience, as were a lot of products made in the U.K. in days of yore. I still have, and use, some of my father's tools he used (he was a professional model maker) back in the 40's and 50's. Okay, so the micrometers and calipers are in imperial units only, but they are still very much usable. I wonder how many of today's tools will be in use in 60 or 70 years time?

All the best, Colin.

My guess is that there could have been a foot operated pedal to engage the drive from line shafting, perhaps via a fast and loose pulley system

Rod

Snap! .

Thanks for your replies and the interesting discussion. I got the drill as part of the deal when I bought a very old Barnes No.5 lathe and I thought it would be interesting to get it working. I also have a fairly modern drill press but I like old machinery too and I enjoy turning what may appear to be junk into something useful.

The bolt in the base has a spring washer and it does seem plausible that it was the pivot for something which is now missing.

Hi Colin,

Too true,that old stuff was built to last,not like most of the junk being flogged these days. I can,t see much of that being around in 50 years time.It is not intended to last,as far as I can see,just there to fill a gap.

I too have some of my father,s tools,which is just as well because you can,t get a good wood plane or wood chisel anymore,the steel in the plane iron is little more than junk,it will not take or keep a sharp edge. My old plane [my father,s] is still going although it,s getting near it,s end after so many touchups. I bought a few replacements from time to time,they are little better than paint scrapers. So,hang on to your old stuff

The trend now seems to be to make the product look good,never mind how it works. My old saw bench,which I built some 50 years ago from bits and pieces,is not a thing of beauty,but it works and there is nothing in it which cannot be replaced if need be,it,s all standard material. Over the last few years I have repaired two saw benches for nabours because they could not get spare parts for them. One unit was 20 years old,the other about 15 years. "Too old,we dont do that model any more" So I say,long live the simple machines ,and the people who know how to use them.

Hi Yes nice to make something old work again -- advertised on here see the link a similar machine I 'Rescued" some 50 years ago, it was a 3 spindle line shaft driven machine -- now have a pretty old Meddings geared head drill so this HAS TO GO !!! no room for it but it is a very useful machine and has served me well. --- have a look

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/classifieds/view_ad.asp?ad=14231

Hi Larry, if you need excellent plane blade there are some in the States, not cheap but top o the tree......hand made with care from the guy's that use em.......poss available here, mine will last me out....sorry no details anymore....clogs.

Dont talk to me about getting stuff from America !!! Apart from the cost [that,s OK ] the cost of postage is out of this world. Who do they think they are?I wanted an Ancme thread gauge from a crowd called Shars and the cost of postage was four times the price of the gauge so I told them to stick it. I got one from China for far less even though it took longer to get here. So what ?,I.ll have it for the rest of my life,at a fraction of the cost.

Why is there no one in England who can produce these things anymore? where are these "Steel masters" we heard so much about?