FLORID SCRIPT

I need to reproduce a motorcycle part dating from 1910. This incorporates the makers details in a fancy script. I have searched MS Word and Photoshop for fonts but nothing matches. Is there anywhere I can search for more fonts?

If this fails I think it should be technically possible to reproduce the script by 3D scanning then converting it somehow to some sort of CNC process - can anyone give me an outline of how this can be done?

Best wishes, Chas Lipscombe

Charles: can you post an example of the script - a photo would be great - then we might be able to find a suitable font. Also it would be handy to know how the lettering is to be applied to the component. For instance, is it etched into the surface? Would Letraset dry-transfer lettering be of any help, if only to provide an example of what you want? You can see their fonts catalogue in PDF format at www.letraset.com/pdf/LETCAT_FONTEK.pdf

There are loads of Font sources on the web (quite often charging) - but if you don't know the name of the font, that could be tricky. The original could be in a custom font, or even have originated without following any specific font at all. Also note that many available fonts can be very problematic for use in CAD because of problems in the way they are produced.

Scanning the part on a flat bed scanner may be possible (less distortion than using a camera), or use a 3D scanner if you have access to one.

If the text is on a flat face, a low tech approach like wax rubbing may even be an option to get an image to scan. Tidying up scans is sometimes possible with image processing software, or simply trace the outline into CAD manually.

Once you have the text in CAD, processing via CNC ought to be doable - though can be tricky if surface isn't flat. Depends rather on the capabilities of your CAD and CAM software.

If the part is reasonably flat then I take a picture and trace over that in my CAD program to create an outline which is subsequently CNC milled.

Cheers, Martin.

Take a jpg photo and upload it to **LINK** to get the best match, although it is fairly unlikely that an exact match can be found.

You may have to do it several times for different letters as it's likely that the initial letters are markedly different to the rest of the name (I'm thinking of Royal Enfield, which had a very stylised Ro at the beginning, also the En and ld at the end).

Alternatively and maybe a better solution is to post a decent photo here, or just tell us what the motorbike is so we can do an image search for the logo, and then maybe some kind soul would have a go at tracing it in a vector drawing program for you (Illustrator or similar). I happen to have Illustrator if you want me to have a bash at it..

Once you have a vector file it can be printed at any size you want, or converted to another format like .dxf for use on a cnc machine - much depends on what you actually want as the end result of the whole process.

Edit -beaten to it 

Edited By Steve Pavey on 30/08/2016 14:53:25

Rats!

I thought this thread was a pean of praise for the loquacity of Ed's Bench.

Neil

Well that contribution's florid enough. Have you been watching repeats of The Good Old Days again?

If you google "typographers association" you will find there is a number of organizations full of typography afficionados, one of whom may be only too happy to help you if you contact them. They get as fanatical about this kind of stuff as others do about Adept lathes etc. They might even have a typographers forum if you look around a bit.

The idea that a designer in the early 20th century based a trade-mark design on a 'font' is really the wrong starting point - sorry. There was not a wide variety of 'font' examples around, in any event, unless you were a professional printer in a fairly specialised corner of the trade. Look at all the motorcycle logos - Norton, Triumph, New Imperial, Rudge, Velocette, Indian, ABC, BSA, you name it, they are all designed from scratch.

And I use 'font' in quotes because the term properly applies to one particular size of one typeface. The style is that of the typeface, or face once you have established the idea, and using 'font' instead reveals (to typography nerds) that you are not quite as up-to-speed as you might want us to think.

The term originates with the casting process ( a form of mass production centuries before anyone started making hand guns or motorcars, or even naval pulley blocks) - and the French term for the process is fondre. And cast iron in French is fonte - the same word for a different product.

And finally, I suggest that the lettering you need could usefully be created in metal using a piercing saw, once you have the outline tracing sorted. Appropriate to the period, not like all this digital stuff.

Cheers, Tim

Edited By Tim Stevens on 31/08/2016 20:54:59

Many thanks to all those who contributed to this thread. The component is the top of a Brown and Barlow carburetter control lever dating from 1910. Obviously a photo would reveal all but I am new to the forum and have not yet mastered getting a photo onto this thread. Obviously some of the contributors to this thread are knowledgeable about old motorcycles so may know this type. This script/type whatever is very close to "Edwardian script" that is popular for formal invitations etc. but rather less "florid", not a highly stylised logo like the Triumph logo.

It seems my best bet is to get someone to prepare me a CNC drawing from the (very good) flat-bed scan that I have. Is anyone interested in doing this for me at commercial rates? The script is on a flat surface.

Meanwhile I will try again to master getting photos onto my posts

Regards, Chas

Best way to post pics is not to faff about with albums etc but put your pic in Photobucket or similar, then when posting on here, click on the photo icon at the top of the post (its the little square to the left of the camera icon) and copy and past the direct link from Photobucket into the URL space on the menu thing that pops up.

Post pics of the bike it comes from too. Plenty of bike nuts on this forum.

Some of those old logos did use existing typefaces, others not. Yet others used a basic typeface  with their own flourish added. So you might get lucky. But CNC certainly would make it easier.

Edited By Hopper on 02/09/2016 03:10:35

Edited By Hopper on 02/09/2016 03:11:18

Edited By John Stevenson on 02/09/2016 05:59:15

Looks like JS has this solved, but, in case anyone is interested, I think this is what everyone's been asking for .....

and this is the nearest I can find in my font collection.

Pretty darn close, I'd say. Just a smidgen of Photoshopping and away you go. [It's "Shelley AllegroBT", by the way.]

John

That would do fine if you're not trying to reproduce the original, if you were then there are so many fairly obvious differences that it would be more work to modify the font that's "almost right" than to create new artwork from a good scan of the original.

- Nick

John,

That's a valiant effort, but I was amused to find just how lax 'Brown & Barlow' were with their "Trade Mark"

**LINK**

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brown_and_Barlow

MichaelG.

I found a few fonts that are close.

On this page...

Stirling script
Palace Script
Shelley Script Andante
Englische Schreibshrift
English Script

I think Englische Shreibschrift is possibly 'the' closest.

Ed.

Edited By Ed Duffner on 02/09/2016 23:05:29

The typeface used in advertising material such as that shown on the link would have depended on what typefaces the typesetters at the print works had available to them. This was back in the day of moveable type where they used boxes of individual steel letters so what they had in stock was what you got.

It looks like they used whatever they had that was close. "Branding" had not been invented yet so things were maybe a bit more free form than modern Coca Cola etc.

To replicate the part correctly, it should be modelled on an original part, not print advertisements.

.

Of course it should

MichaelG.

As a point of 'academic' interest only ...

I had a look on the UK Trade mark seatch, last night, and could find nothing for 'Brown & Barlow'

MichaeG.

.

P.S. ... the service is not available this morning, but is worth exploring, for Trade marks new and old.

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmtext/Results

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/09/2016 07:51:23