Warco WM16

Now, to be honest this is a pretty good machine, by that, i mean it has done to date everything that i've asked it to do.

Despite this, i'm now fairly dissapointed in it, and can see every reason why i might've held out for a 2nd hand english mill (theres no way i could afford a refurbished one)

Its got nothing to do with the length of the table or the power of the motor or even the number of tee slots. What warco tells you, it will thus have and it performs very well on demonstrations i would imagine.

It's more to do with cutting corners if anything and poor design as to why i'm dissapointed in it, i recently noticed that the RPM was wobbling up and down on the back gear mode and thought i might open it up to look at the gear box inside, i got about as far as removing the motor and removing a couple of gears and circlips to find that the access into the gear box is blocked by a bearing that cant be gripped or pushed out from the other side, the only way to access it is to remove the entire head from the machine and redial the head.

I looked in the oil port though and saw that one of the plastic gears for the back gear had seemingly worn completely away the teeth, this seems like it was inevitably going to happen and i cant see why they would do that.

Its no big shame, i can still use the mill but only in high speed mode and goodness knows how long thats going to last? I cant see how they would know how to build these machines and yet overlook such a common long term issue that isn't caused by machine abuse. I think i've been had.

Now i'm pretty sure i wouldn't consider replacing it, i would if i had the money, but i'm going to have to put up with it. So yeah, the new might look shiny but it's not for long.

You're moaning to the wrong people, it all boils down to you get what you pay for that most people on here can personally relate to.

I have a Bridgeport turret mill but space and budget are a whole different story. I think that for the money a lot of the hobby mills produce some nice work.

They also often put in a part that will fail easily before you do more extensive damage to a load of metal gears, think of it as a safety device like a shear pin in a leadscrew.

You say your niggles are to do with corner cutting and also say you can't afford an English Machine, had they not cut corners then you probably would not have been able to afford the WM16 either. Same would apply to many people who would still be faffing about with vertical slides like MEs before us who could not afford mills before the far eastern ones brought them into a more affordable price bracket.

J

Edited By JasonB on 01/02/2016 07:53:58

I have a WM18 size machine and all in all I'm very happy with it...its work envelope is great for its size and weight

My gear only lasted 4 weeks and after stripping it out it was because the speed change levers detents only put the gear half in mesh with its steel counterpart...after modifying that and a new gear alls been well since ( 3 years... but then done away with see below)

Modifications I've done

Motor drive to Z axis

3 axis dro

power drive to X

tramming screws on head to hold head at 0 degrees

oiling system to screws

replaced motor with induction motor and VFD now 1.5kw

get rid of gearbox and fit htd belt drive

machines runs so much better and almost silently from 40rpm to 2000rpm and no vibration

I'm limited in the weight of machine I can get in my workshop ( down 13 steps) but it does everything I can imagine.

Ian

I have a WM 16 ... very similar machine, & interested in how you have...

Fitted oiling system to screws

Fitted belt drive

Motor drive to Z axis

Have got similar fitted re. the other items ( 2 axis DRO, X drive, Tramming screws )

Would appreciate pics / drawings

George

George

the oiling system is a pump from arc some pipe a 3 way connector and fittings into each nut...the pipes are a bit of a pain to route so they dont get trapped on the travelling of the ways

The Z drive is a small parverlux 24 dc geared motor from ebay theres a seller who does loads of these

Its mounted via a coupling to where the handle fitted and controlled by a switch mounted on the side of the control box

The motor and belt drive is here its a 1440 rpm 1.5kw 3 phase motor with a 35 tooth 15mm wide 5 mm pitch htd belt and the pulley on the spindle is a 72 tooth

the gearbox is removed completely

the tacho drive is relocated to between the 2 gears left on the spindle

Guard removed for photo held on with the screws visible in front of the front  pulley

Edited By Ian Parkin on 01/02/2016 10:44:55

I've noticed quite a few people have mentioned the plastic back gear stripping out very quickly and i cant see how thats deemed a practical solution when it simply breaks, i'm left with no choice but to put it back together and run on the high speed gearing until i can take the whole unit down and make a brass replacement or something.

It's far more likely to be a matter of production cost. It must be cheaper to knock out injection moulded gears than hob metal gears.

I would expect a gear train to be able to cope with the forces applied by a stalled motor without damage. That is true of my lathe and mill as I have stalled both by being over-ambitious. Of course none of the above applies for shock loads, like running the lathe tool into the chuck; then you're likely to lose some gear teeth. And possibly some of your own if it doesn't happen to be your machine tool.

Thanks Ian; much appreciate your quick response, will keep your post for future ref. for annual o/haul ( 1st time ) later this year.

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 01/02/2016 12:32:40

"then you're likely to lose some gear teeth. And possibly some of your own if it doesn't happen to be your machine tool.-"

lol

i marked someones mill table once when counter sinking these ally tubes. the depth wasnt correctly set on the stop but he insisted that i wasnt applying enough pressure, i wasnt in a place to disagree with him :P

I did take some photos of this messed up gear but they are far too blurry being so dark to be of any worth. Its an extremely lightweight plastic, not like peek or delrin but fairly flimsy feeling. I dont dare mess around with taking the head off and the normal running gear looks to be in good order so i've put the mill back together for now and packed it out with some molislip grease and hope and pray that it'll hold out on normal running mode.

Unless it breaks again i'm going to leave it alone and maybe one day i'll take the time to machine a new gear from brass.

I'm not saying its a bad machine but it's not the first time i've heard about this problem, i do actually like it other than that. I can seem like victor meldrew sometimes, as can my father before me, but a good old moan and taking it apart has taught me alot more than i used to know about the machine.

I'm just gonna grumble a bit as i cut that brass >=( !!!

Michael

is this the same as your gear?

this is how mine wore out as the teeth were not fully in mesh

Having said that the one that i have spare which has been in 3 years or so is like new after solving the engagement problem

That wear pattern is precisely the same as mine, theres only a little bit at the top left holding it all together, i take it you bought another gear from parts service? it seems as though that the "lifting" mechanism on the side is not seated fully when selected and causes the gear to wear out because its only half engaged. Its promising that after 3 years its still in good order

P.s. Good grief you've done some hefty work to that machine! :P

Edited By Michael Walters on 01/02/2016 18:05:59

I am due to get delivery of my M16 next week. Knowing my luck, i am bound to make a mistake. So what advice do you give to prevent your problem. How, for instance, can i check & adjust meshing of the gears

Is it easy to replace? What should I look for when it all arrives. Have I bought a pup?

Any advice please

Im looking to get a milling machine but unsure now whether to get a new machine and risk all of the above or look for something older and maybe not have all the problems , but maybe a bit more wear etc .

Mark P, you are most likely better getting one of these machines than a well worn ex industrial job. Unless you know where the machine is from/condition etc. they can cost a lot to refurbish.

I would say as an honest user, I have not pushed this very hard, i generally do roughing cuts of about 0.5mm and this is why its kindof annoyed me, it's potential is very good despite this. It speaks for itself.

The material for the gear is probably ok, as you've heard. a few people have had these for years with no problem, just be careful when switching between high and low gear, they recommend that you dont do this at high speed obviously but i wouldve changed my ways by doing the changes by hand, very similar to the way you would rotate a lathe chuck back and forth slightly to get it to sit in the right gear.

Just remember to be careful to make sure the switch is fully engaged before operating it.

I can still use my stricken one on high speed but i guess you're really counting on luck in the end, i'm not out to badmouth anyones machine.

P.s. i will elaborate slightly on what i said by "changes by hand" -motor off, emergency stop on, twist the spindle back and forth until the engagement switch for high/neutral/low comfortably sits in the right position, thats the best i can advise.

oh and pack some thick grease in the oil port on the side of the machine where the gears sit every once in a while, they should have plenty applied already from the factory but its worth checking with a small torch. 

Michael W 

Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:04:42

Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:05:42

Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:07:20