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Stuart 'No.1' : a beginners tale..

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GarryC05/05/2014 19:23:53
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Hi Ian

Yes, as Jason says - talking about studs just for clamping. I have a feeling whoever designed my clamping studs has never had to use them, I nearly always have to use more than one 'clamp' per stud to be able to tighten.. A continuous thread would seem to make much more sense for that job..

Hi Jason

Thanks, I've used Tracy a lot so its good to have that link, I think they will be useful..

Ready for some more soldering now after doing the fixing holes on the other bearing cap. Been wondering a bit how the initial drilling of the bearing 'permanent pairs' through on the join is going to go... and hoping that at least having the cobalt bits now will maybe increase the odds of success... The gunmetal was 'grabbing' at the bit when simply drilling the bearing caps - imagine it may be worse on the join. Yet another first at that..

No washers on the bearing cap drawings by the way - but something to remember to check before spot facing in the future!

A few more photo's finishing the fixing holes..

The second bearing cap with fixing holes and spot faced..

89. the second bearing cap with fixing holes.jpg

Test fitting both bearing caps - just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 1.

90. test fitting both bearings caps 1.jpg

Test fitting both bearing caps - just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 2.

91. test fitting both bearings caps 2.jpg

Test fitting both bearing caps - just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 3.

92. test fitting both bearings caps 3.jpg

The photo shows it doesn't line up perfectly on the housing, bit too long on the one end - but it's not too bad..

Regards

Allan.

Ian S C06/05/2014 12:18:28
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230 photos

Sorry, must not have read things clearly, yes I understand about the clamping studs. I have a wee box of steel spacers of different lengths that I use to space the excess stud length, other wise, if I need clearance, I use a suitable length bolt, preferably with a washer under the head.

      On the ST9 project I used washers under the nuts, they are the same diameter as the AF dimension of the nuts.  No nuts is quite prototypical on a motor or other machinery of this type.       Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 06/05/2014 12:25:50

GarryC07/05/2014 15:58:37
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740 forum posts
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No nuts (washers..) is quite prototypical on a motor or other machinery of this type.

That's interesting and good to know, thanks Ian.

Anyone following is probably sick of seeing photo's of my bearings by now - if so click away now - because here's a couple more!

Time has been against me the last few days but hope to start drilling them tomorrow...

Temporary soldering of the first bearing pair.

93. temporary soldering of the first bearing set.jpg

The first bearing pair after soldering. Looking a bit sorry for itself..

94. the first bearing pair after soldering.jpg

After a quick cleanup again - checking the alignment is still ok after soldering - and before drilling.

95. checking alignment of the first bearing pair after soldering.jpg

I've been getting a bit paranoid after reading of problems drilling brass and gunmetal. Especially after experiencing the drill bit grabbing when enlarging the pilot hole in simply drilling the fixing holes for the caps - on every hole as well... Julian has kindly given me some pointers about the need to 'back off' the drill bit rake angle for Gunmetal. I've found this little video helpful in understanding a bit more - the example is in plastic but I believe would apply to Brass and Gunmetal as well.. **LINK**

I think I will try to do myself before starting..

Regards.

Allan.

 

 

Edited By Allan. on 07/05/2014 16:18:49

Neil Wyatt07/05/2014 18:49:22
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It's worth remembering the Stuart No. 1 isn't a model; steam engine, it's a small steam engine, so 'prototypical' is highly subjective.

Washers are rare on old machinery and steam engines in general, but not unknown.

Neil

GarryC07/05/2014 19:36:20
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740 forum posts
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Hi Neil

I'm looking much more closely at any old equipment I come across these days, although I've always had an interest in such things the great thing now is that what I'm learning in ME is often directly relevant and makes it even more interesting. Washers or the lack of them are something that I haven't been noticing though - no doubt I will in future now! I've seen quite a few steam engines on TV since doing and completing Victoria with almost identical or very similar looking parts or workings - its a great feeling to have a more 'intimate' knowledge..

Cheers.

Allan.

Nick_G07/05/2014 19:51:43
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Posted by Allan. on 07/05/2014 19:36:20:

I'm looking much more closely at any old equipment I come across these days,

Allan.

.

Have a day off and an early morning start and visit here :- **LINK**

Nick laugh

GarryC07/05/2014 20:17:59
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740 forum posts
1043 photos

Hi Nick

Yes nice link, have been saying for a while it would be good to visit Bolton and pay respect to Fred and visit the / his heritage centre - now have two reasons..

Cheers.

Allan.

Nick_G07/05/2014 20:41:55
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744 photos
Posted by Allan. on 07/05/2014 20:17:59:

Hi Nick

Yes nice link, have been saying for a while it would be good to visit Bolton and pay respect to Fred and visit the / his heritage centre - now have two reasons..

Cheers.

Allan.

Back in about 2003-4 I remember shooting a model draped 'artistically' on the full size steam engine in what was 'The Lion Salt Works' in Cheshire. Think they are now trying to raise money to renovate it and have secured the building. But back then you could just open the door and walk into the shed.

No idea if I could post them here.??? - Purely for research purposes of course.! wink Perhaps a moderator could clarify.?

Nick

JasonB07/05/2014 20:53:01
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I've no problem with it. I assume its a Female model so as long as there is no nudity thats OK. Not that we would be looking at the model anywaywink 2

I think the Salt Works featured on Restoration when they were trying to raise funds.

J

Nick_G07/05/2014 21:08:21
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Posted by JasonB on 07/05/2014 20:53:01:

so as long as there is no nudity

J

Looks like they will not be getting posted then.! cheeky

But it is a smashing engine. I remember thinking that if you put steam onto it, it would have started like it's last run was yesterday. The boiler however was a totally different story and it would have taken a very brave man to have raised steam.

Nick

JasonB08/05/2014 07:20:33
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Maybe you could Photoshop a boiler suit onto herthumbs up

GarryC08/05/2014 18:12:20
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My first setback with the No.1 today - I'm sure there will be lots more...

When drilling on the Lathe, the solder joint failed at the 7.5mm drill bit and despite re-soldering couldn't get it square again for some reason, so will have to redo one of the bearings, at least. They have to be soldered as a pair to do the OD so a bit of a setback. All going beautifully until that happened, I intended to get a boring bar in at 8mm, to take to the 'undersize' before boring between centres later as the last step..... So bit unlucky as well maybe to get that far and fail..

As they are going to be bored to the final diameter in situ I'm inclined to try drilling the other one on the Mill and if ok do the same with the remade one - unless someone strongly advises against it.

I found it difficult to hold them in the 4 jaw - the two side 'lugs' with the fixing holes were just 'sliding down' 2 of the jaws - it was just in the wrong place when centred to hold with all 4 jaws - I'm wondering if this contributed to the joint failing maybe. Think I will be better off clamping to the Mill Table (with parallel blocks or something)....

Cheers.

Allan.

JasonB08/05/2014 18:44:34
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I would just put the bearings and caps in place as they are and then do the rest on the lathe.

You can hold a drill bit in the 3-jaw to open up the holes large enough to get the boring bar in and with them bolted down they won't be going anywhere

This and this are a couple of mine being done that way

roy entwistle08/05/2014 18:49:33
1716 forum posts

Alan I would bolt them in place on the baseplate making sure they are solid they would not need sweating together I would then mount the whole lot on the cross slide at the correct height using centres in head and tail stocks and drill then ream ( I don't have a milling machine ) You could bolt the baseplate to an angle plate on the mill and do them that way Excuse me if I'm sticking my oar in

Roy

Andrew Johnston08/05/2014 20:49:20
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Posted by Allan. on 08/05/2014 18:12:20:

When drilling on the Lathe, the solder joint failed at the 7.5mm drill bit and despite re-soldering couldn't get it square again for some reason, so will have to redo one of the bearings, at least. They have to be soldered as a pair to do the OD so a bit of a setback. All going beautifully until that happened, I intended to get a boring bar in at 8mm, to take to the 'undersize' before boring between centres later as the last step..... So bit unlucky as well maybe to get that far and fail.

Sorry to hear that; still that's how experience is gained. That's why I don't use the method. wink 2

I'd make a jig so that the bearing pair can be held securely. If the jig is accurately located before boring then one can bore the bearing pairs individually while being assured that they will line up when assembled into the baseplate.

Andrew

PS: Sorry to be a smartypants, but I couldn't resist it. smile

GarryC08/05/2014 21:18:42
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740 forum posts
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Hi Jason and Roy

Thanks, wish I had seen both these posts earlier, bit too late for the second bearing now though after me trying to re-solder and continue.. However thanks to these posts I can see its maybe a good idea to get on the cross slide as early as possible... Have to remake the one now but then I think I'll drill 'small' holes first on the Mill as the small bits are too short to reach through both bearings in situ on the lathe - then as suggested open out using drill bits in the 3 jaw and do the rest by boring on the lathe cross slide - with the bearings securely bolted down this time..

Hopefully I can align the bearings before boring on the cross slide by 'holding' on the head and tailstock centres to pack the soleplate to height. Hope that makes sense..

So it will be a while before I get back to this point again to be able to continue here..!

Cheers.

Allan.

GarryC08/05/2014 21:25:40
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740 forum posts
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Hi Andrew

First thing I thought of when the solder failed and the bearings slipped - your earlier post about you having similar problems and not using the method any more!

I'll be back before too long..

Cheers.

Allan.

julian atkins08/05/2014 22:33:16
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1285 forum posts
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you could always loctite them together instead of solder.

i would fit the bolts/studs, then bore out the bearing holes. make sure the studs/bolts are 'fitted'. tight push fit clearance hole initially.

anyway this is how ive done split big ends and numerous eccentric straps over the years.

cheers,

julian

GarryC09/05/2014 06:51:21
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740 forum posts
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Hi Julian

Thanks, yes I would like to try this method. I would be grateful to know which number Loctite you are using? Also do you just heat to separate and if you are using a solvent afterwards to clean up or just rubbing down with emery... Although I guess I can get this from just knowing which one you are using..

I can see it may be a cleaner, easier way for the future. I can post up on here then as well - as its different from my first efforts others may be interested to see by comparison etc..

Once together think I would just drill small holes in each on the mill or even drill press to use to centre on the cross slide, then drill and bore in situ having everything 'bolted down'.. Then to separate afterwards of course..

Cheers.

Allan.

GarryC09/05/2014 08:21:33
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740 forum posts
1043 photos

I've just been cleaning up a bit my disaster from yesterday. I swear yesterday it looked like something from a horror movie, but now I'm not quite so sure if it can't be saved...

I'd be grateful of any opinions, I'll go take some pics after breakfast...

Cheers.

Allan.

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