Milling Machines

Ketan does not have a chip on his shoulder and I can prove it.

The last time he came up ower place I had to give him two quid to buy a bag of chips and he ate them all, so no chips left over.

Incidentally, the bastard still owes me the two quid.

John S.

Well said Steve Clark, I agree totally with your deductions. As for Arc, the guy is pleasant enough UNTIL someone starts telling the truth about Chinese machines and then you can rest assured that his sidekick Mr S will respond to back him up. The only difference between them and Laurel and Hardy is Laurel and Hardy were a laugh, this pair are a joke.

Ps, if possible look for a second hand Wabeco mill. first class Hobby /Light engineering gear. and then, [ And I don,t mean this offensively] you will be the limitation [ Which will be less and less as you gain experience].

Regards,

Donald.

Michael

Quite so - and then go on to argue about it!

I don't recall any enquiiries about bog rolls though .............. do you have any recommendations in that area?

( Ah well it all passes the time and it's too cold to go out to the workshop today)

Cheers

Norman

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Donald , could not agree with you more.

Who's the one who has done the most explaining about Chinese machines ? Got to be Ketan.

Read back thru this post and it's obvious that from his repeated vists to the factory and surrounding supplies he knows what goes on, is not afraid to state it which is more than other lock up box shifters do.

I apologise if it seem like I'm standing up for him again but I NEED that two quid.

Laugh = joke in my book, other opinions may vary.

As regards the Wabeco I could not agree more and I meant this. Very nicely made mill but hardly in the Chinese price band but as we all know you get what you pay for.

However seeing as these are so good they only appear in the second hand market very very rarely so if we have say 200 people wanting a mill and I reckon this is a low number giver sales from many suppliers only 2 ? people are going to be satisfied .

What do the other 198 do ?

John, Point taken about Wabeco, they are few and far between on the second hand market [just spent an idle 45mins looking] It,s just that I am of the opinion that if you buy a machine you should not have to spend time or money in getting it to operate correctly ie, Gib strips that need lapping, bearings replaced with SKF / FAG or similar, colums not square / perpendicular, holes not lining up, now surely you must agree that these are some of the basics to get right? And yes I am also aware that even British, German and other European /Japanese makers have had their quota of "Duffs" but they are very few and far between. I have said this before and say it again, it all comes down to quality control or in many cases of Chinese machines lack of it., and until they address that issue the situation will not improve.

Regards,

Donald.

There seems to be a lot of mud slinging going on in this topic, a lot of it aimed at Ketan from Arc.

All I know of Ketan is from his posts on this forum, I have found him to be very open and honest about Chinese machinery. Arc used to offer a fettling and setup service, I ( being an absolute beginner) thought that the machines Arc sold were not fit for purpose until this work had been done. This added considerably to the cost. I am sure this also led to a loss of sales. I ended up buying my lathe from elseware. Ketans knowledge of the Chinese (and Indian) manufactures, has opened my eyes to reality in this respect and I can quite understand why this service has been suspended by Arc.i am sure, that like many others, I have ruminated and cogitated over what to buy and who from. I eventually decided on the SX2 from Arc. I could have paid a lot less and indeed a lot more for an ordinary X2 mill, so why did I go for Arc's offering? Brushless motor and all that comes with it, fixed column and R8 spindle taper and Ketans honesty in telling what to expect from Chinese machines in general. Do I know how to use a mill? No! But am willing to learn as I go along, same as I have done with my lathe.

I am not stupid, I know that there has to be a difference in capabilities of machines that are intended for the hobby market and industrial market, and indeed between hobby machines costing a few hundred and a few thousand pounds. What I have purchased is at the limit of what I can afford, plus I am under NO illusions about my own capabilities or complete lack of them. Had the Chinese machinery not been available I doubt I would have been able to partake in this great hobby. It takes courage for a supplier to be open and honest in the way Ketan has.

i have used Arc's service for supply of the smaller items and found it as good as any supplier out there, the SX2 I picked up from the shop to save delivery charges and found the staff very friendly and accommodating and will certainly use Arc in the future.

I only know Steve clark2 from his postings on this forum, which to me, only seem to end up being slanging matches, this is not what I have come to expect on these forums, and to be honest does little for newbies like myself. All I want to do is suck up a small fraction of the knowledge available on this forum and indeed other forums like this one.

It does not matter what hobby one undertakes, you will always find the 'snob' factor, mines is bigger better and cost more than yours, therefore it goes without saying, I can do better than you with your inferior equipment etc etc.

I have been around long enough to know that, those that can,DO. Those that can't, talk the talk.

Come on guys

Very well said Howard!

At this price, the tools will need some fettling ... but surely that is part of the fun.

MichaelG.

Even if you get an oldie but a goodie from the old days you're going to have to do some stuff to it

When my dad did piece work in Birmingham the annoying bit was waiting for the guy to reset the machine to acceptable limits

You got no money when you weren't making bits

Not knowing anything about it he would stand with smoke coming from his ears until the supervisor sorted his machine or tooling out

With model engineering we have to learn all that stuff ourselves, from scratch

In the beginning things progress at a snails pace, but like anything in life, we learn eventually

I think we forget how spoilt we are these days. There have always been budget lathes, but I sincerely doubt that pound for pound they were as close in quality and capability to 'top end' machines as they are today.

China will stop artificially keeping the price of their currency low one day, and when folks have to pay the value of their goods, people will look on the last couple of decades as a golden age for new entrants for the hobby.

Neil

Kindly define "the hobby"

Building things for pleasure rather than commercially. How sharp do you want the definition? Please define "define".

Chris,

My point was that Alan said [quote] "it will probably spoil the hobby for him".

I simply wanted to understand what Alan presumes to be "the hobby"

My own engineering hobby is building, modifying, improving [etc.] various devices; including machine tools. I have never bought a Chinese Mill, but I see no reason why improving one should be any less rewarding than building a steam engine from castings.

Others may think differently.

MichaelG.

Alan,

I am bewildered by this remark.

MichaelG.

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Posted by alan smith 6 on 19/01/2013 19:20:21:

By the way Michael, what exactly do yo procure?

Alan

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Alan,

Goods and Services in various sectors [Aerospace & Defence; Public Sector, Utilities].

... The products are irrelevant to this discussion; effective Procurement is a discipline.

MichaelG.

My goodness, I thought this was a forum of mature adults!

For what it's worth, I went with a WM18 clone from SPG tools, but would have happily gone with many of the others on here, SPG at the time were the right price for me. It's an R8 machine, I haven't found anything particularly awry with it in the 12 months I've had it.

Lots of R8 tooling available, and with a friend with a Bridgeport it made even more sense for me.

I bought a collect set, so use that for holding end mills. No problem with ejecting the collects, probably quarter turn to tighten and only a light tap with the side of the spanner to release.

On Chinese tools generally the price is excellent, enabling many of us to have significantly better equipped workshops these days than otherwise. I've got a few other Chinese sourced items, none let me down. Best via a UK importer who ensures quality control and support.

Alan,

You make me laugh. No reverse psychology here. I used to have sugar level problems before - usually on the higher side, rather than the lower side . However, you will see that I did apologise for over reacting in places. I also said that I stand by my views. In my experience, if there is a lot of hassle pre-sale, there will be a lot of hassle post sale. Every time I go against my gut feeling about not to sell, the sale always creates problems, as per the example I stated earlier. As I will find it difficult to meet Steves expectations, it is better that he is serviced by my competitors. I know that he would not be interested to buy from me anyway.

In my opinion, being successful or otherwise in business does not mean that ARC should compromise and accept every sale, just because a potential buyer is waving money at me. This is the first policy which is instilled into every employee at ARC. We have turned away lower and much higher value of sales, when we do not deem them to be in the best interest of ARC.

I started in business with my father in 1986. Thirteen years ago, we were as good as bankrupt with a £60,000.00 overdraft resulting from bad debts of over £160,000.00. We dissolved our partnership, I sold my house, paid off the overdraft and started this business. The principal of this business was and still is, to try to be open and accept honest sales without hassle. In my books, the customer is not always right.

I have already told you that the SX2P will fail to meet your particular high precision expectations. Sooner or later, fettling is always part of the equation to make these machines meet your specific requirement. This does not mean they are not fit for purpose. This does not mean they are not suitable for beginners. You are welcome to come and meet me when ever. I am still happy to politely turn you away for an SX2P then to sell you one if my gut still tells me to. It does not mean that I am arrogant. It does not mean I have a chip on my shoulder. It does not mean that I don't like you as a human being. It just means that I don't want any hassle from you, skilled or otherwise. Pure and simple.

ARC will never be able to please everyone. No company can please everyone. ARC aims to please the majority, and we are successful in this respect, because of our openness, which is accepted by many, and rejected by few. We all have our own views.

In answer to your last question sentence, I am successful enough to retire today. My business is my hobby. It feeds me today. What the future holds, only time will tell.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 19/01/2013 20:16:11

For what "my tuppence" is worth, I made the expensive mistake of buying a milling machine with nylon gears. While it had the positive points of a dovetailed pillar etc, the nylon gears were an expensive mistake---- even using very fine passes. I really regretted the purchase and wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy!

I shelved this mistake and went out and purchased a machine with steel gears, nine speeds and a decent motor and have never looked back.

Cheers,

Phill G

Quote from NJH (ah well it all passes the time and it's too cold to go out to the workshop anyway)

Come on Norman get a bit of heat in there. Here is a pic of my shed taken yesterday. I have a 2kw fan heater which got the temp up to 18 deg in 2 hours,so a bit of snow ai'nt going to stop me playing.

Cheers Derek.

Edited By magpie on 19/01/2013 20:38:46

Sorry Alan, I dont think I am shooting a friend. The only people on this thread who are seeing the 'so called other side' of me are you, Steve and Donald. There may be others who might still come to light, and that is your and their privilege.

If you really read my my comments here and elsewhere, be they on this forum or others, I have always tried to help beginners. You really dont know me.

The machines we sell are entry level hobby machines. Who do you think buys most of these machines?. We have more beginners buying from us today then we ever did, due to our openness, service and price. There has never been a change in policy. Why would I want to piss them off?

I dont have a negative attitude. As I said before, if a potential sale is going to be hassle pre-sale, it is going to be hassle post sale. I bend over backwards to help people, beginners or otherwise, who come and ask me straight questions in a straight way. I spend hours with them if the situation requires.

I enjoy my business. I am not a fat cat, and I definitely do not consider beginners to be a pain that has to be endured. These are all sentences which you are planting here. I do take exception to unfounded hassle based loaded comments / snide remarks made without knowledge, be they from beginners or from experienced people such as yourself.

You should know better than to continue stirring up various people in every thread in which you participate. I fail to understand what deluded pleasure you get out of it. Still, this is your privilege and I don't really want to deprive you of it. As you feel that you are just seeing the other side of me, I saw the other side of you already on the other thread, so you could say that I saw you coming. . You too have positive attributes which are qualities you should nurture, rather then promote your other idle side.

Respect

Ketan at ARC.

When I bought my X2 milling machine, Ketan tried to talk me into buying a cheaper X1 mill because he thought it was a better fit for my needs as I described them.

I still went with the X2 and don't regret it, but I'm sure he was not trying to influnece me for any sinister reason.

Neil

As I often say when I post here my contributions are few and infrequent, and I do not make mpdel trains etc etc. I use my machines to make full size working parts for running motorcycles of various makes and ages.

I am about to buy a small "hobby" mill to go in my garage with my Myford 254S.

I have looked at numerous machines in the low cost hobby machine sector, from numerous suppliers. Because of my engineering background I am aware of what I am buying and have interrogated anumber of people face to face about their machinery offer.

I can assure you all that my milling machine will be bought from Ketan Swali at ArcEuro. Whenever I have visited him he has been extremely generous with his time and has been totlly open about the limitations of hobby milling machines. I an stunned at the rudeness of some on here towards him, he is in my view honest and open.

I make all the normal disclaimers.