Evading VAT and Import Duty

I think you're right. Be sure to report back when they get those pesky loopholes sorted though!

Martin.

Err... that's exactly what my statement means. Buying from a non-registered builder was a VAT-free transactioon ERGO there is no VAT to be exempt from.

I won't speculate on whether or not the materials could have been bought direct under an exemption.

Neil

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Sorry, Neil, but I still disagree with your statement.

The builder's VAT-free transaction with his customer is not a problem; and therefore cannot have a crux

Samsandra already has the benefit of a VAT-free charge for the builder's own services.

The only 'loss' [i.e. the problem] is that the materials were purchased with 20% VAT added.

... The builder was obliged to do this because he is not VAT registered, and the exemption form can only be accepted and used by suppliers that are VAT registered.

MichaelG.

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We have already drifted way-off your original [very important] topic ... so I rest my case.

Surely I feed the country and the country feeds me. We all benefit. As a child I was in no position to pay for my education; fortunately taxpayers picked up the bill. Now I'm a taxpayer I'm happy to put other people's children through school. They grow up, get jobs, and pay my pension!

Of course no-one likes paying tax but access to the 'free at point of delivery' services mentioned by Ketan are huge compensation. Often Groups are stronger and more effective than Individuals. In the event of war it's not a good idea for the government to send everybody £60 and tell them to defend themselves! But individuals should be encouraged too. Unfair taxes are wrong.

Government services aren't perfect, nor is the tax system, and - let's face it - most of the population are a little dishonest. Maintaining the right balance is an endless task. I'd say the UK has it about right even though much needs fixing, and there always will be flaws and stupidities.

The one thing I hate more than paying tax is discovering that my neighbours have evaded it. Bring back the birch!

Dave

My last riposte (it is my thread anyway so I reserve the right to go OT):

The problem was trying to exempt oneself from VAT - the crux of that problem was that there was no VAT.

A bit like the dog in the night-time.

Neil

Jokers:

**LINK**

I can’t read Mandarin!

From 2007 crisis onwards it is difficult to decide what is in business morally wrong and what is right.

For me it was eye opening moment - I got an evidence that game is rigged and books are cooked.

Returning to broaching set - VAT is not an issue, VAT or not VAT, but as per current offer which I got Chinese broaching set is still about twice cheaper than your. Still negotiating a better deal. You cannot produce competitive offer one way or another. Further, you cannot accept that Asian goods such like inserts, Torx screws and other can be 10-20 times cheaper than European.

You call it "money laundering". Do you have any solid evidence to support such claims? Or you just claim it because you don't like what you see?

One way or another you are essentially threatening here on this forum your existing and prospective customers that you would report them to a tax man, should they have decided to purchase some goods from your competitors and not from you. At the same time you are claiming that you know how to legally not pay these taxes and for sufficient money you could undertake it. In another place you seem happy that our legal system is such a shamble that you may legally not pay inheritance tax if you only employ some parasites (solicitors) who will navigate it for a fee. Don't you understand that legal system which allows such situations is simply morally dead? Businesswise your PR execrcise is a disaster.

Regarding competition of UK and China, it boils out to simple truth that welfare state cannot compete with something more morally sound where individuals are expected to take care of themselves and state assistance may come only as an exception, in case of disaster and not as a rule.

Hence China wins. Our elites with support of electorate are legislating local manufacturing out of existence.

Why? Because public wants more welfare, more safety, more services, more handouts... and more money. Unfortunately it is impossible to eat cake and still have it and it is also impossible to borrow yourself rich.

We as a nation have became decadent scumbags, and unfortunately I do not see anything other than collapse and ruin in not too distant future. But lets enjoy while party is still on.

Martin

Edited By Martin Dowing on 11/12/2017 22:11:17

Martin, I'm sure Ketan can respond for himself, but you should bear in mind that he has been importing tools from China for twenty years so he may have some first-hand idea of what it costs to produce these things in China.

N.

Yes, have seen his webpage.

His business model seems to be "buy cheap in Asia, double or triple a price and sell here". Also to whine and threaten his customers with a taxman, should they try to import something themselves and cut a middleman. It is rather difficult to conceive more daft PR and customer care exercise.

But to be fair on him, not all stuff from his offer is Asian.

Btw, my wife *is* Chinese, she can read and write Chinese, have family in Asia and her family is involved in business there. She can say something about operating business procedures in China and ASEAN.

Martin

Bloke in china finds 429 people & makes 5p each (£21.45) for selling 12 screws & a torx driver ( may even be making a loss or relying on state aid to do that)

Bloke in UK only has to find 12 people & sell 12 screws to make £ 21-45 (11*£1.95)

Who has the best business model ?

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 12/12/2017 08:20:42

Clearly china has developed a model that benefits it by making sure they protect their interests from foreign goods, and who can blame them, they're only doing what any other country in their situation would do. 

Britain has since long left behind the "everyday" engineering, and now seeks only to protect areas of highly complex engineering such as aircraft, chemicals, high grade steels, etc.

It's a similar story across a number of business areas. Anyone remember the "Small enterprise loan" they used to give people? 

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 12/12/2017 08:24:51

Walmart?

Btw, wait only how much this Chinese bloke will charge once all his Western competitors are put out of business...

Also, I think it is rather a dedicated CNC machine and certainly not 100 of fitters or lever pushers, who are making these Torx screws.

These would be rather employed in Bangladesh and no longer in China. Possibly some Chinese blokes are subcontracting such tasks to Bangladesh and elsewhere, where workforce is getting paid 1p per Torx screw and then they are selling it for 5p making hefty profit.

Martin

You might ask how much the Bangladesh guy is going to charge once we start buying from him & cut out China

People seem to forget that once it was Japan that was producing cheap goods & we all complained-- until the Japanese workforce got to see western style goods that they were producing & wanted higher wages so that they could have their own. China is already seeing the effects of wage increases.

It will not be that long before it all starts to balance out again & a new "cheap" competitor turns up. By then let's hope that we in the UK have started to develop some new ideas ( forced on us by Brexit perhaps )

This thread is not going to solve any of the problems "discussed" and IMHO should be binned by Mods.

Did a registered house builder years ago

They paid vat on materials then reclaimed from the vat people, new house sales are exempt, builders can be zero vat registered status, which is NOT exempt status

Edited By Ady1 on 12/12/2017 09:45:09

I don’t know why folks are talking about business models. I made the tools for friends and gave some away. Ok, I did get a couple of bottles of beer in return from one I made but I hardly call this business. When you’re giving stuff away to friends you don’t want to pay £1.95 plus £2.30 p&p for a single Torx screw when I can get a dozen for less than half the price.

Martin,

Good Morning

In your broaching thread, you state:

'I want to make an offer ($110 + p&p). Many times Chinese have accepted an offer ranging 40-60% of their advertised price. Maybe they will again. VAT or duties are not a problem. Chinese suppliers are declaring very low values on their parcels. It is their SOP.'

That is encouraging tax evasion. If that makes you feel happy, that is up to you. Feeling the need to brag about it is wrong. HMRC has asked us to report such events. This request has been made by HMRC to many businesses who have complained to them about this practice. It is no longer a crime on a small scale. Panorama has clearly highlighted this.

I have been writing on this forum for a long time. I write as I see, and as I feel happy. There are many times I have failed to agree with particular postings, and I have expressed my views. PR is what it is. The outcome will be what it will be. It is up to people to decide if they wish to buy from me or from anyone else. As for UK competitors, if you care to go into the history of my posts, you will find that I have often helped with issues related to them. In your own Broaching post, I have even told Hugh to stop beating around the bush, and linked to his offering.

It is true that my price is what it is. My product is from a different factory from the one offered by Hugh and your ebay link. Hughs looks to be the same as the ebay link, and I would be more than happy for you to purchase from him. Whatever you decide is up to you.

I have replied the point about legal loop holes earlier. You interpret it how you wish.

Regarding money laundering - you make up your own mind and decide whatever you wish to see. Postage from China in many instances is far more than what the related products are sold at. You have your own sources, so check it for yourself.

Also, real costs for some products are far more than what you see them in some places such as ebay, Amazon and Alibaba. This can be due to: rejection, bankrupt stock, back door theft, a channel to launder money out of China.

Ketan at ARC.

I think KWIL is right, much of this thread is now way off the original purpose, so I'm locking it.

I don't think many forum members can now claim they are unaware that posts suggesting routes around tax and VAT on imports (other than staying below the threshold value) will be removed.

Neil