Is Knurling a health hazard?

Tut, editors aren't supposed to be ethical. 'MEW for Cats' would outsell the Radio Times...

Dave

Best one I heard direct from the originators of The Uxbridge

Countryside - - - - killing Piers Morgan

Just reading all this stuff !!! UGH, how can I ever go out to my workshop again? My lathe is covered in oil,swarf,ect,likewise my mill,and as for my bench------that,s like a tiphead ! My drilling machine is a disgrace,and as for my bench saw,God only knows what might be living in the sawdust around that ! I can,t understand how I have survived so long with such dangers all around me. It must be because no one ever told me about them,but from now on,all that will change. N o more running out to finish off a job without being fully kitted up,helmet,goggles,earmuffs,gloves,knee pads,boots,the works ! can,t be too careful.

When I remember some of the places I worked in,machines with no guards,solvents of all kinds,paint overspray,and so on,to say nothing of cuts knocks,I wonder how I,m still around.

The fact is that the human body is well able to deal with this,has been doing so for the last 10000 years or so,so dont worry too much about it. If the H/S shower had their way,we would not be allowed to F-----t in case we might injure ourselves !.

Knurling is definitely an oil brush hazard.

And workers with missing fingers, arms etc from getting caught in moving machinery, or cancer from exposure to industrial chemicals. I for one don't see what's heroic about getting your arm ripped off because someone couldn't be bothered to fit a guard. And don't tell me it didn't happen, it did, and industrrial accidents are massively reduced since people started to think about H&S. The probem comes when people who don't know what they are doing are unwilling to conduct a proper risk assessment and just try to ban everything. This is NOT the HSE, I've spoken to them in my working life and they despair about banning conkers etc as it distracts from addressing real hazards.

Well said, or rather written, Mr Webster.

I have likewise been involved with the H&SE from the "industry side" over many years and found them pragmatic & reasonable people - the inspectorate branch especially. Their approach to workplace risk management was invariably sensible and any enforcement action justified. If only some of the Local Authorities were as rational.

This type of thread always gets a thumbs up from me, you begin to realise the vast and diverse knowledge base that we have contact with now-a-days within a relatively small family of like minded people.

If I can add my little towards skin care, a few years back my wife started getting cracked skin on her hands, very similar to 'old Harry's 'ands' from years gone by. This we found was due to a preservative in hand washes and hand creams, also shampoo and cosmetics.

The product is called methylisothiazolinone , see **LINK** for more info. Since we removed this from our house and usage both of us had improved skin conditions.

Edited By Brian Ess on 31/07/2017 23:23:51

A lot of the teductin of industrial accedents is due to the reduction of industry, and transfering the accedents to places like China and India. The rest of the reduction is bought about by automation.

Ian S C

In the UK, the manufacturing industry has increased by around 40% since the 70's. The sector has however declined relative to the service sector (it is not growing as fast as the rest of the economy) so is a smaller part of the economy at around 12%. This second statistic is the one that gets quoted most, which I beleive leads people to think that manufacturing is reducing in real terms.

Automation may well act to strip people out of the sector and certainly allows 'remote handling' which must reduce injury rates but a quick troll around on the web found a couple of graphs that show a slight increase in manufacturing jobs between the 80's and 2000.

The relative shrinking of the manufacturing sector with respect to the rest of the economy is a trend in all of the developed nations in the west although it does seem to be more extreem in the UK possibly because of the success of London as a financial centre.

I find that most people think we don't make anything any more when we actually make more that we ever have.

regards Martin

Would have to agree with both Brian and Ian. Some of the stuff used in cosmetics and washing powders is scary,to say the least.,and again,---no factories,no accidents,simple as that.

However,there is something like one fatal accident every week on farms over here. I doubt if factories could equal that,at any time. Nothing the H/SE can do will correct this. When one sees the type of farm machines around now,one can see the need for common sense,but as Bernard Shaw said in his day,"There is no such thing as common sense,since about one person in every ten thousand has sense of any kind,it can hardly be called common"

Machines do not cause accidents,people do,by being careless around machines,which never sleep ! As everyone knows,there are some people who should never set foot in a workshop,in the first place. In order to protect such people from themselves,the H/SE puts a blanket ban on everyone.You can,t even select boards in a timber yard anymore,they wont let you past the counter,and you have to take whatever they bring out.Same in scrapyards [do they exist any more?]

Time will come when we wont even be allowed to use our own workshops unless we have completed a "course" and have a "certificate". I doubt if most of us will be around at that stage[or would want to be].

Hi Martin,

What do they make in England these days? Everything I see seems to be made in China! and in the Model Engineering field,very little seems to be home made.

Just asking !

Automotive, Aerospace, chemical and pharmaceutical, construction, space, electronics etc

Take a look at

**LINK**

It has a breakdown by sector further down the page in cluding 30,000 people in the steel industry.!

I totally agree that the balance between the service sector and manufacturing is unhealthy and I do think we could do better but it's totally wrong to say we don't make anything anymore.

regards Martin

Good point Martin, things are not as they seem. I thought that London was finished as a major port. Old photos of the docks and riverside show lines of ships, lighters, warehouses, cranes and railway lines. For many years it was the largest port in the world, and it looks like it! The modern Port of London is much less obvious. Despite that modern London handles more cargo than the old docks ever did. By the standards of a modern Container operation, the old Port of London was busy, sprawling and horribly inefficient.

Similar changes have occurred across Industry. In general, if it's 'Made in England' today, it's probably high-end rather than traditional mass production.. Most businesses do not see manufacturing as an end in itself, their goal is to make low-risk profits. For that reason it's common to find design done in the west and manufacture done wherever in the world it happens to be cheapest. At the moment China has plenty of cheap smart people, coal and other resources. For the time being it makes much more sense to make mild steel in China than it does to expensively import coal, ore and scrap into the UK so that expensive people can make it here and sell it at a loss. Will China's industrial boom last for ever? Most unlikely.

Dave

<> Do we in the UK "manufacture" or mostly assemble these days? Does it even matter now? If components can be manufactured to spec more cheaply in the Far East so be it. Most of our manufacturing/assembly industry is owned by Far Eastern, German or American multinationals anyhow. "Will China's industrial boom last for ever? " ~ asks 'SOD'. Surely, it will prevail as long as their (and India's) attitude to environmental issues and thus on-costs remain?

<>"However,there is something like one fatal accident every week on farms over here. I doubt if factories could equal that,at any time. Nothing the H/SE can do will correct this" The Health & Safety Executive are concerned with the workplace (as defined) and the public if affected by workplace activities. Agriculture is subject to H&S at Work Regs. The H&SE have just published the latest statistics on workplace fatalities for 2016/17. They dispel some popular misconceptions and is compelling reading:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/fatals.htm

Of the 102 work-related fatalities, more than half resulted from contact with a moving object. Eight were as a result of "contact with moving machinery". Eight too many of course.

" For the time being it makes much more sense to make mild steel in China than it does to expensively import coal, ore and scrap into the UK so that expensive people can make it here and sell it at a loss."

And what "Spec" Mild Steel would that be??

Regards Ian.

Not so much of 'at a loss'

British Steel at a glance

• 30,000 direct jobs
• 54% of UK Steel workers work in Yorkshire and the Humber, or Wales
• Annually adds £9.5bn to the UK economy
• Exports worth £4.9bn in 2013
• 1m tonnes of output in 2014
• The value of the industry has declined by almost a quarter (24%) since 1990
• More waste steel is recovered in the UK and recycled than all other materials combined
• Each tonne of scrap recycled by the industry saves 1.9 tonnes of iron ore and 0.6 tonnes of coal

(Information courtesy of www.eef.org.uk/uksteel)

Edited By Martin Kyte on 01/08/2017 10:57:10

Edited By Martin Kyte on 01/08/2017 10:57:52

Good morning Dave,Martin,

No,China,s boom will not last for ever,nothing does,remember Japan some years ago ?,then it will be somewhere else. I was unaware that there was anyone involved in the steel industry these days,apart from those selling it or using it,do you still make it? [Is it now owned by an Indian co?]

Not sure about the Auto industry,most of that appears to be owned and run by outsiders and I can,t remember the last time I saw an English made motorbike,it was a long time ago !

Re the Port of London,this is true of most major docks,they were due for upgrading anyway,as were the railways. This happened quickly all over Europe,but sad to say,not in England,where shipyards are a thing of the past and the railways??, need I say more? Of course,you are not alone,over here,they not only closed down the railways,they took up the tracks as well,just to be sure [maybe that,s where some of that old rail track came from ]

Are there any machine tools made there anymore,or did Maggie get rid of them all? I suspect that if there are,they would be priced way out of our range anyway,since they were never intended for people like us.

By the way do any of you remember a shop called Tyzacks in London [not sure if I have the spelling right ]? I remember seeing their ads years ago in a magazine called "The Mechanic",which my father used to get from time to time.They all got lost during my many house moves,as did many other things!.

Excuse my rambling,that,s what old age does to you !

PS Dave,I enjoyed your tale about trying to buy a secondhand lathe !,could tell you a story along those lines !

Triumph Motorcycles will be most offended, as will 600 Group, who still make Colchester and Harrison machine tools.

it doesn't really matter who owns it, a lot of the high value front end engineering is still done here, those relatively well paid jobs result in lots of income tax and corporation tax, which we need to pay for the health service.

As others have said, 40 years ago Korean machine tools were a joke, but my Naerok was pretty good and now they make some of the best in the world. Our problem is short termism, it takes years to get into profit on most engineering work and don't get me started on the ridiculous cost of building infrastructure in the UK. They have spent £30 million on the 'Garden Bridge' without building anything, all consultants, feasibility etc. It would have been a waste of money anyway, at least we're not throwing good money after bad.

Hi Duncan, You think that,s bad? over here they spent well over 60 million setting up water charges and they still have not got it up and running,and perhaps never will.

Re: "Triumph Motorcycles will be most offended"

As would another phoenix from the ashes: **LINK**

200bhp + @ 12,500rpm !!