Dumb question from a none driver

I don't know if these points have been covered already because I started to lose the will to carry on reading! However;

A good few years back I decided to let my wife use a car that I own but had not used and was in storage and wasn't insured or taxed. She tried to insure it as we thought it would be good for her to gain some NCD in her own right rather than as a named driver on a policy I took out. This proved impossible as no insurer would offer cover unless she owned the car! Situation very similar to your son as I was effectively lending her the car.

Fast forward to a couple of years back and I borrowed a mate's trailer to do a long distance pick up of a machine. He told me he didn't have the trailer individually insured and was worried what would happen if it became a total loss. I checked with several sources including my own car insurer. I was told I could not legally insure said trailer as I had no insurable title in it. Ie if it became a total loss as I didn't own it the loss would not be mine and it could only be insured by the legal owner! It was confirmed as long as it was connected to my vehicle my vehicle insurance would cover any liability or damage I caused with it but would not cover the value of the trailer.

Apparently this is a legal principle of insurance that you can't insure something against loss unless you are the legal owner and it is you that will suffer from a loss. Interesting that in the case of the trailer I would have suffered loss as I would have had to pay for a replacement, but apparently this doesn't count!

In light of this it might be worth your son checking the insurance he has arranged and that it will cover the loss of the vehicle or damage to the vehicle as he doesn't own it.

I have no idea how this rule applies to the likes of lease / buy agreements where you pay monthly to use the vehicle or to the HP / Loan scenario other than perhaps under the terms of the agreement you are liable for the whole debt so there is a quantifiable personal loss? Maybe someone knows the definitive answer to this? I can't see how it works with a hire car either as you don't buy the car for a week!

The OP may seem to have posted a simple question but I think the answer is not so simple despite some comments to the contrary.

Paul.

My wife's car that I bought new is registered in my name but my wife is the only driver and she has a fully comp policy on it. It was done like this because I bought it for her as a birthday surprise. The insurer knows this and is perfectly happy with it. I am the owner, she is the insured.

Maybe things have changed now, I remember being pretty annoyed at the time and couldn't understand what the problem was. She tried half a dozen or more companies, all gave the same answer. She also still had contacts in the insurance business as she used to work for a broker so we contacted them and they couldn't help either. Doesn't explain the trailer which was only a couple of years back although I only tried 3 companies for that. Would be interested to know the definitive position.

Paul.

Anyone can PAY for insurance on a car but if they are not the owner the owner ust be named the benificary of the policy. This is common and happes hundreads of time every day.
What won't happen is multiple payouts if there are multiple policies covering the same loss.
What insrance companies don't like is someone with good history insuring a second car with a less experinced named driver. They (often rightly) assume the second car is actually the main vehicle for the higher risk driver.
So the non owner insuring a car as sole driver (as in OP's case) should not be an issue.. And this appears to be the caase as the OP has stated the car is insured his son.
Unfortunatly this post has turned into a bunch of opinons and anecdotes most of with are no help whatsoever to the OP who doess not drive.

Robertt G8RPI.

It's true you can't go around randomly insuring other people's property and claiming money if it gets damaged!

But the driver and owner being different people is very common in motor insurance. Hire Cars, Company Cars, Lease Arrangements, Hire Purchase, and Commercial Vehicles etc are all driven by non-owners.

It works like this. Insurers require that the client has 'Insurable Interest', that is proof the driver will lose financially in the event of an accident. One way of establishing 'Insurable Interest' is ownership (easy and obvious). Another way is legal liability, or a contract (more complicated).

I think the problem is your wife asked to insure a car borrowed from someone who hadn't established a claim against her. In the absence of any paperwork showing 'Insurable Interest', you had effectively agreed you wouldn't go after her for the money if she destroyed the car. This is why I suggested Mark have a piece of paper agreeing his son would either hire his car or buy it over time : it establishes Mark's right to compensation as well as ticking the CAB ownership box.

How you ask insurance questions can make a big difference. In the past I bought insurance from experts who would either match my clumsy explanation to a policy or explain what I needed to do to get insurance. Much of this service seems to have gone. To keep costs down most consumer policies are narrowly defined to cover risks the Insurer understands and can quantify statistically. Policies cover standard situations, the customer is expected to read the small-print, and most of the expensive experts are replaced by a call-centre staffed by students. Insurers in this market keep costs down by not negotiating special cases. (Other parts of the Insurance Industry are happy to negotiate risk as is done for insuring North Sea Oil Rigs or against a poor harvest. Not easy to contact them and it's not cheap. )

All you had to do was give your wife the car, or hire it to her, or contract her to cover your loss in the event of an accident. Very similar with a trailer borrowed casually from a friend. Towing the trailer, your ordinary insurance covers damage to your car and third-party claims, but not the value of the trailer without proof of 'Insurable Interest'.

I don't know what Trailer Hire companies do; I suspect they insure the value of their trailer themselves and don't recover the cost from the drivers insurance. The cover would be paid for out of the hire fee.

I don't think Mark need worry much about this particular circumstance. The worst that could happen is the insurer refusing to pay the trade-in value of a van that cost £700. I think they would pay if Mark's son could show he was hiring or buying the van from his dad on an instalment plan, or contacted to return the van in roadworthy condition.

Dave

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Hi, reading the above few posts is exactly why I said that legal advice in the way of a solicitor would be the best option for Mark in a situation he seems to be in. The solicitor one would choose should be one that is familiar with motoring law. You need to be sure what you are doing when you are thinking of hiring anything to do with vehicles, as insurance can be costly, again something you need legal advice on if you don't know.

Regards Nick.

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Since you registered the car in your name you are the Keeper ....

But, since you gave your wife the car as a present .... She is now the owner!

Dave

Just an update i yesterday received a receipt in my name as owner so with the facebook conversation and screen shots off the phone showing the seller in the conversation i feel i have enough proof of purchase.

The V5c change of keeper has been done online.

Initial insurance my son took out on the van was wrong due to mix up between comparison site and insurance company not having me as owner of vehicle down on policy and not being covered for commuting to and from work.When contacted they said my son would have to either become the owner or cancel policy .So cancel policy it was.

Cancelled insurance today (within 14 day cool off period) £72 refund given on initial deposit.

Took out new policy today which has me as owner stated on the policy and my son as the keeper, and covers for commuting to and from work.

So everything seem alright i think.

thanks everyone for all the advice

mark

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Hi Mark, good to hear you got things sorted.

Regards Nick.

Well done, Mark ... good result

MichaelG.

Mark, not wishing to concern you, but I'm not clear when ownership was changed, and tax paid; not that it's any of my business of course.
May I suggest you, or your son, checks the tax status on-line, both now, and in a couple or three weeks time, just to be on the safe side. That link will also provide somewhere for you to check the insurance is registered on MID, who aim to get it updated within 48 hours, but claim it can take up to a week.

May I also suggest that your son carries a printout of the new insurance certificate with him in the meantime, just in case an ANPR check flags something up, due to the previous insurance being cancelled.

I'm glad all worked out OK, and hope your son gets everything back on track.

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 04/09/2019 22:23:16

Thanks for the further comments.

Bill  - i checked tax , mot and insurance status just now and they all check out for the vehicle. my son i think said he used the bar code on part 10 from the V5c form which the seller should or shouldn`t have gave us to arrange the tax.

Mark

p.s the seller had the whole V5C from the previous owner before him

Edited By mark smith 20 on 05/09/2019 00:36:01

Bill raises an important point. the "tax" (road fund licence) no longer transfers with the car. It is cancelled when the car changes registered keeper. Unless your son has actually paid for new tax the vehicle will be untaxed. The online status may not update immediately especially as the previous keeper does not seem to have notified the DVLA of the sale. If they had it taxed then the website may be showing that.

Robert G8RPI.

Only until the tyres need air, the engine needs oil or the wiper blades need changing Dave :D

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H e paid online using the bar code from the V5c part 10 (the part about new keeper) ,when i checked yesterday it says taxed until 1 August 2020.

Neil,

'Patently Absurd'?? Whos name needs to be on the V5 on taking up posession of the vehicle?, who will get the notification to tax.

I was advised from Swansea, some years ago admittedly, that the 'owner' was the person purchasing the vehicle as new (as declared at first registration on the V5) and paying the relevent purchase taxes / VAT etc, secondary transactions between private individuals are not recorded in the same way hence the description of 'Registered Keeper'.

Regards