Welding Gas

I paid an initial deposit of £55 on my Adams Gas 9L/137 bar oxygen cylinder, plus £36 for the gas. Lasts for ages unless doing a big boiler job, and with pre-heating from a propane torch it is still an economical option - about a third of the way silver soldering a 5" A4 boiler and used just one fill so far.

Just had an exchange from the local agent for £36. That's it - no handling charge, delivery charge or annual rental, and when I've finished with the cylinder they give me my £55 back.

Better than the huge sums of money that I was paying Air Products for annual rental of a half cylinder. Very happy with this option.

Various gases and mixes available - http://www.adamsgas.co.uk/hobby-gas-welding

Quick update on welding gas prices in this spreadsheet (on my Google Drive). I've compared pure argon (for TIG welding) and 95% argon / 5% CO2 mix (for steel MIG, technically called MAG). I would prefer 20L bottles myself (4 - 5 cubic metres) but many suppliers only do the smaller 10L bottles with around 2 cubic metres / 2000 litres. For reference, the Y sized cylinder in the BOC Volkszone deal is 20L. The X size is 10L.

The BOC deal seems to make sense for many scenarios unless eg you will genuinely take more than a year to get though a bottle, in which case you've probably spent more on your armchair than your welder. Some deals are eye wateringly expensive and / or involve very sizable deposits.

Murray

Yes my armchair was petty expensive Murray. Way more than the welder. Cintique usually is but they last a long time.

The problem for some is that they may not spend much time in it. Not much time welding either. Which way to go is likely to be a tough call for many.

Thanks for the post. It's interesting.

John

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Are BOC doing the Volkszone deal?

BOC's normal charges are

Y Gas £67.85, Rent £99.40 with 3 and 5 year options that save a bit. Evironment charge £079, Delivery £52.55, Collect £14.40

X Gas £51.30, Rent £77.90 same options. Rest the same.

Pureshield argon taken from their 1 May 2016 price list. VAT to be added to all. They will refund pro rata on rental. One complaint I have heard is deliveries - when they choose to arrive not when it's wanted. For most of us though it looks like a local depot is the best option.

It would be interesting to know what the deal prices are on X cylinders. Muzzer maybe ?

They also offer 300 bar cylinders. E33 for instance seems to be the smallest which is

Gas £82.59, Rent £115.70 no 3 and 5 year rent options.

They also give monthly rentals. X £7.05, Y £8.90 and E33 £10.15

They say that they have re introduced the long term option on small cylinders. As they will refund pro rata and only take part payments on the anniversary it may be a cheaper rental option.

The price for an X on the web is a little bit more. They do have web sales. The price list refers to applications in writing so may need to get the fountain pen out. A laser may not be good enough.

Forgot to mention that going on the list I'll bet Chorley do plenty of business.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 11/01/2017 11:57:06

It seems that the deal is not available on X in puresheild. Only Y.

You need to be a hobbyist and establish and account. Much to my amazement the application can be obtained pretty quickly.

Murray will be pleased that I will be going with BOC.

John

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It's possible to organise an account via the chat on BOC's site. All done electronically even including a signed direct debit. I don't think any other supplier can get any where near the Volks prices. It would take a lot of years on rental and even then it might not break even.

I started filling in the web form but it looked like I was going to get a bottle immediately. It's too cold to work where I can weld at the moment and while the garage doesn't leak any more it needs some sorting out.No heating either. I asked and the lady said she would sort this out as soon as I sign up. I'll make sure she does. She entered a W sized bottle on the form. No way. Even the Y's are pretty heavy.

One odd aspect is called docusign. It's some method of signing a direct debit on the web. They offer a number of different signatures based on your name. If none of them suite paint your own with a mouse. Then agree to it's use. They say adopt it. Just hope there isn't some way that they can get my bank to change my real signature to what I can paint.

John

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.

**LINK**

https://www.docusign.co.uk/

MichaelG.

I wonder if we will ever see 100 million signatures and papers hacked as a headline.

I suspect it's just a paper keeping service really.

One interesting aspect of BOC's chat line is that a transcript of the conversation can be emailed so that users  can keep a copy. I'm pretty impressed with that. It's not a bad idea.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 13/01/2017 17:45:58

Cool. Thanks for the update. I asked the account manager at BOC (Stuart Anderson) if the deal was still active but no reply (yet).

Sounds as if I should either use the online chat or possibly just check with my local BOC supplier if they are familar with the Volkszone deal - I'd be surprised if they weren't - then just darken their door and hopefully come away with a couple of cylinders. I could almost be tempted to get a W size for the TIG, as that machine is somewhat less than portable, unlike the MIG. However, without wishing to understate the situation, I have "some painting and wiring" to do before I'll be ready to get welding again....

Murray

I don't know if they will offer a W on Volkszone Murray. I do know that they wont offer an X. I'd prefer that as I don't want to have to hump 40kg about. Manageable ok but lighter would be better given my probably usage rates. I suspect that's why they don't offer X. They assume usage rates will be low so they wont be handling them that often.

Just to please JS I may well finish up with a cylinder trolley before I buy any gas. Xmas presents arrive on xmas not when it's time to use them.

Garage - when it was completely emptied for a new roof the bench got scrapped too. Woodworm and damp.

Jobs - when the weather looks to be dry I need to get some more plaster board. Then bags of premix concrete to fill in a trench that now has unused pipes in it followed by ???? bags of floor leveller. At that point I might be able to start installing kitchen units. After fitting a new ceiling.

John

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You should get one of these custom "Mig, Tig and Plasma" trolleys

Edited By JasonB on 13/01/2017 20:12:10

I sold my mig welder Jason and wont be getting another.

I just succumbed to one of these even though it's Friday 13th.

**LINK**

It's possible to pay a fair bi more for that model.There is also I suspect a lighter round tube model about.

One other reason for getting one is to prevent cylinders rolling about in the car LOL Afte all I do drive a subaru and the islands and main road merges in Redditch are nothing short of wonderful.

I may find I have to weld a bit more onto it to stiffen the axle.

John

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Hello Neil,

The old steel Sodastream bottles were phased out in favour of aluminium units a few years ago. They did refill them if I went to their Peterborough premises and would fill them on the spot. Even this is now no longer available.

I solved the problem by buying a hefty cylinder of CO2 from Ebay and made up my own refilling rig. I think the CO2 cylinder will last me for the rest of my life. CO2 motors don't exactly use large amounts! Even my converted Cox engines and the big triple Gasparin Anzanis don't take all that much.

Andrew.

That link I posted should have been

**LINK**

John

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I was a bit confused about docusign. The direct debit is optional but the signature aspect is needed to complete the form. It's a bit repetitive in some ways but not that bad. The main thing is that all red bits have to be filled in. As I stopped filling it in on Friday I has an email that explained this morning. I don't mind direct debit but wonder about setting them up on the web. The alternate is bacs. They still want bank details later.

At one point they ask when bottles can be delivered. Oh no I thought so put 23-58 to 23-59 and then later it asks if their trucks which they say are about the size of a dustbin lorry can access the premisses. I put no. Then comes special delivery instructions so I put collect only.

Me thinking oh no might have caused me to think that this was in red too - pretty sure this was but ......

When it finally gets to the end of filling things in, there are a number of nexts and a couple of radio buttons to press that's the time to press finish. The lot then comes back via email along with an option to review.

So I have signed that I am hiring a W bottle from 17th Jan. The lady says that she will sort this out after the forms are filled in and I can then have a bottle when ever I want it. Likely to be a month away at least.

John

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John - what was the damage in the end? Rental and refill for W size?

BTW - don't leave the bottle tap on and rely on the solenoid. I can tell you it isn't always reliable...

Murray

She's put down Y rental charges. More or less the same as your spreadsheet. No gas charges on the form. Cost was as you indicated for Y maybe a touch less.

If you want info I suggest the chat on the web site. It's quick. A W weighs 85kg - no thank you. I suspect one of the aspects of what they supply for diy is weight. Nobody is going to fancy nicking it. Perhaps that's why they wont supply x. No idea really. X providing I could get refills quickly would be fine for me really - unless it runs out part way through which nvg what ever bottle size,

Out of interest one chat person reckons argon can be used for mig on aluminium up to 2mm thick.

I will use the bottle tap. Also check the solenoid assuming it's normally off. Simple really. Pressurise it all and walk away for a while and then come back and check.

The bottle trolley should arrive soon well ahead of the need for it. Plenty of time to send it back if a load of crap. The sellers reckon all they sell is made in the EU so stands a chance of being worthwhile. I had a motorcycle stand rust out from the inside so I may squirt some thick oil into it if I can.

John

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If only you get acetylene as easy.

You could ask on the chat line. At least that way you would find out prices etc also if there are any odd deals.

It looks like the chat line is the best way of dealing with them to me. I don't think it's in the far east.

John

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