My first foray into clock repair

Bring it along in April: http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=132921

There will be lots of people, some experts, eager to offer opinions on how to fix and what it is worth. If you get the chance, you get a lot out of a face to face conversation and physically pointing to bits of the clock.

Although a bit of fresh oil may get it running as a short term fix, for longevity you should strip and clean every now and then .... and it looks like it could do with a clean.

The striking mechanisims can be more awkward to reassemble as you have to get the positioning of wheels correct relative to each other (so not just get them in the right holes). Very often there are tell-tale marks on them to help align them which you would miss if you didn't know to look for them. It is much easier to be shown these things than try to work them out from books.

I picked up an app for my iPhone (Cucko clock Calibration) which listens to the beat of the clock and indicates which way to bend the crutch. It also counts the beats so that you can adjust the pendulum length/ timing of the clock.
BobH

Bodger Brian,

My Mother has her Father in laws, my Grandad's its very similar in a similar cabinet but it has a pendulum and yours looks as if it should.

Martin P

I have to disagree. I was present when someone asked an unbelievably stupid question. We were on a tour of the Westlands factory in Yeovil. The stupid question was 'Why doesn't the helicopter have an ejector seat?,

Now that is stupid.

Never seen anything on that scale online.

Regards

Richard.

The screws indicated by Fowlers Fury in his picture are for adjusting the depth of the escapement, not for correcting the beat. Don't mess with them unnecessarily as the adjustment will be lost, and as the clock in question will run without the pendulum the depth is probably about right.

For beat adjustment, on this type of clock there is often a friction clutch connecting the crutch to the pallet arbor. This is supposed to adjust the beat automatically but may be troublesome with age as it needs just the right amount of friction. If it is too loose the clock will stop. Adjustment of the beat is done by moving the crutch on the arbor and not by bending it.

De Carle is very learned, but possibly not the best book for the beginner. Try Clock Repairing and Adjusting by W.L. Randell, one of the Percival Marshall series - basic but informative.

Re: "I have to disagree. I was present when someone asked an unbelievably stupid question. We were on a tour of the Westlands factory in Yeovil. The stupid question was 'Why doesn't the helicopter have an ejector seat?, Now that is stupid. Never seen anything on that scale online.".

Point taken but perhaps the questionner had been thinking about downward ejector seats, like the B52 & much later F104s? (only joking !)

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But back to the Brian's (OP) questions and follow-up answers. Inevitable I'm afraid you'll receive conflicting advice, suggest you ignore mine and follow that of those more learned in these matters.

Hi Brian,

You have a relatively mass produced clock sadly of no great value. However, I would be as keen as you to get it running again and overhauled.

In my youth, a number of striking clock mechanisms (of no particular worth) were left in a tub of petrol, and the petrol squirted through all pivot holes with something like a turkey baster moving the pivots for and aft.

Later, other valuable movements were treated better and more thoroughly in subsequent years, and worn pivot holes rebushed, and damaged pivots replaced. But the tub of petrol approach is not to be dismissed if all pivots show no play in the pivot holes.

I can cope with English movements and their striking, and Longcase clock movements and their striking.

However, I failed miserably with an American striking movement on a rather nice family heirloom, and I failed to re-assemble the striking mechanism correctly after repairing some worn pivots and pivot holes with the clock completely dismantled. It runs ok and keeps good time, but I do not wind up the striking mechanism as it goes mad. Your project has inspired me to have another look at it after some 23 years.

But I think my point is that in these cheaper foreign movements is to be very careful what you do so far as dismantling and the striking mechanism. Others far more expert than me will no doubt give you far better advice.

Cheers,

Julian

I take lots of photographs during the dismantling process. That gives me a reference for the reverse process.

Currently working on one of these.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 01/02/2018 09:38:05

Thanks for all of the comments, gents. I know some of them contradict others but all are welcome.

I made the decision to try adjusting the crutch on it’s arbour. Bad move! All that achieved was that the pendulum still hung at the same angle & the pallets were now totally out of position with the teeth of the escape wheel. I managed to get it back where it was (I think), then applied a bit of tweaking to the crutch (as shown in the drawing posted by Fowler’s Fury).

This resulted in a case of one step forward, one step back. The pendulum now hung vertically (or as close as I think I’ll get it) but the clock refused to run. I then slackened off the two screw on the bracket holding the suspension spring & adjusted it’s position (and hence the relationship between pallets & escape wheel). Admittedly by more luck than judgement, after a lot of blood, sweat & naughty words, I managed to get it to run. Here come the next questions :-

1) When I managed to get it to run, it only did so for a short period, one or two hours at the most, no matter how often I set it running. I’ve now come back to it after a few days, set it running again & it’s been running for over 10 hours. Why would it not run successfully now but not earlier, with no adjustments being done in between?

2) I found it very difficult to make small adjustments to the bracket. Not slackening the screws enough meant that the bracket couldn’t be moved, whilst slackening them too much meant that the bracket would drop under it’s own weight & I’d have to start again. Any hints or tips in this respect?

Brian

Edited By Bodger Brian on 11/02/2018 20:07:31

This may sound patronising - if so I apologise. I doubt whether there was anything wrong with the depth of the escapement as I said in a previous posting, as the clock would run without the pendulum. Anyway you seem to have got that about right.

The slots in the back cock (the bracket in question) are vertical so all that moving the bracket does is move the pallet arbor vertically. It has nothing to do with the beat adjustment, or the way the pendulum hangs. To answer question 2. it is difficult to adjust because it is a clock! I have the impression you were trying to adjust it with the pendulum in place - don't. Take the pendulum off and lay the movement on its front - supported for example on top of an open box.

If he clock is stopping consistently after say, one hour, then there is something in the movement which is jamming every hour, so it must be on a part which rotates once an hour. It is worth taking off the hands and motion work (the reduction gears which drive the hour hand) and see if it then runs continuously, as this is a possible cause of jamming.

I think though that if you haven't cleaned the clock yet you should do so as it could well be stopping just because it is dirty. I would bath it in white spirit rather than petrol, as modern petrol ends to leave a deposit on the plates.

Redsetter - not patronising at all. Apologies if the following comes across the same way.

To summarise :- I had removed the hands & dial & cleaned the pivots (without dismantling the movement), then re-oiled. The clock had previously been running continuously but with the pendulum offset / not hanging vertically. All of my latest travails had been an effort to rectify that. It was also pointed out by a previous poster that one of my photographs showed the movement stopped with a pallet on top of one of the escape wheel instead of in front of it, which should be rectified - hence my adjustment of the back-cock.

I had found that adjustment is difficult - hence my asking if anybody had any hints or tips on how to make small adjustments.

Brian

Edited By Bodger Brian on 11/02/2018 21:34:06

Brian ~ my last posting suggested that any advice of mine should be ignored, given all that provided by the experts above. Yet your request ... "hence my asking if anybody had any hints or tips on how to make small adjustments." remains unanswered.
You might find it interesting to read "Is there a standard for adjusting palette height on escape wheel?"
**LINK**

Over and out.

Hi Brian,

Listen to the noise the clock makes when set up. I know this sounds elementary but a trained ear will be able to tell when the escapement is correct simply by listening to lots of other well set up clocks.

Cheers,

Julian

Just to bring this thread to a natural end, I'd just like to say many thanks to those who have taken the time to patiently answer my perhaps naïve questions - it's been much appreciated.

After many a long hour of tweaking, I've managed to get an even beat and although the pendulum still doesn't hang quite correctly, it's a big improvement on what it was. I've decided that I need to accept that at this moment in time because of my inexperience I'm not going to improve matters, so the clock is now hanging in our hallway. All that remains is to adjust the pendulum bob - it's currently losing about 1 minute over a couple of days.

I now have a non-running mantle clock in my possession, which I intend to strip down and get back into running order. I feel a new thread coming on.....

Brian