Which mag

Geoff

I'm sure Club News is great for those who are members ( or are potential members) of clubs so well done! . I'm not in anyway critical of either club members or the club scene and ME does provide a way of communication for those folk. If you are a loco fan it's almost essential to be a club member - especially if you need a boiler test or want to drive your labour of love! However I suspect there are many other folk beavering away in their workshops who have no access to or connection with clubs.

So to bring this back to Ron's original post on his search for knowledge I think MEW will be of most use to him coupled with some of the books already mentioned. A stationary engine project which has been well written up, access to this site for queries when problems occur ( remember Woolfie's "cries for help"!) and, if he has access to a local club, there will probably be someone there who can help. Finally browsing through ME for entertainment and a look at what is ( or may one day be) possible!

Cheers

Norman

Ron,

it is worth having a look at Engineering in Miniature (EIM) as an alternative to ME and MEW.

DC1 has done a very good lob editing ME and MEW over the last few years but inevitably the editorial style was the same for both magazines. I buy both ME and MEW regularly but find the general style of EIM refreshing - a bit like ME used to be before MEW came along. Worth considering.

ME comes twice as often - twice the pleasure, plus twice as many digital back issues to read.

As Norman has brought us back to Ron making a stationary steam engine perhaps I can give my web pages on making a Stuart 10H or 10V a mention, surely these must be the most common starter engines for the first time model engine maker. The pages are certainly the most viewed on my web site.

Nominally ,they get 6000 page visits a month out of 50000 page visits and equates to 5% of the pages getting 12% of the page visits, so there a quit a few people obviously making them.

There are 27 pages Ron with 81 illustrations, most of machining set ups. It is aimed at the workshop having only a lathe but the milling operations can easily be transferred to the milling machine.

The site is at **LINK**

Harold Hall

I was a regular subscriber to ME for about 40 years and I have never read MEW. However after some of David's previous comments I unsubscribed to ME. After his moderation antics today the only magazine I would contemplate continuing with would ne EIM. hth and is all imvho

Surely the view that 'one mag complements the other' is a contradiction of the actual case. For most of its life, ME covered the fields now covered by two magazines. IMO the only obvious reason for the split into two mags was to increase the amount of money that the publishers take off gullible readers, Simply by introducing another high-priced magazine, and spreading the contents of the original mag over two publications, they doubled their income - and apparenlty no-one said a dicky-bird!

Sandy Morton is right - Sad to say, there are other magazines with more interesting content than ME or MEW. Try comparing some of the older MEs with todays offerings.

I think Bazyle has it the wrong way round - ME + MEW may come twice as often, but each copy is (less than) half as interesting. ME used to be published twice monthly earlier in its life, so now you are getting 1/4 of the content per magazine for a considerably greater cost. (I also did not renew subscriptions).

Sandy

The vast majority of the content of ME is provided by the authors as would have been the case during the 40 years you took the magazine. Sadly, by you not taking it, it is mainly you, but also the authors who have lost someone to enjoy their efforts, who are the losers.

Wotsit

A very large proportion (well over half) of the readers of MEW when I was the editor were not at all interested in model making, Many of these would not have taken ME just to have a few pages devoted to their interests.

Also, the magazine was only to be 4 issues a year so was in no way a ploy for selling two sets of magazines so you are very wrong in your interpretation of the reason for this. It was because it became so popular that it was increased to 6 issues and as this was too many for Stan Bray then I took over. During this time many of the readers, not the publishers, were still asking for more issues.

Harold

.... but it still is published twice a month (actually bi-weekly..... 26 times a year)

But I agree MEW is a lot less interesting. I can still pick up one of the earlier copies and read it for days on end. These days .... well ... TWO interminable beginners series and a stepper-motor lathe series that's been going for a year and I can't believe that a significant proportion of subscribers is contemplating building it.

Edited By Sid Herbage on 18/01/2013 23:20:19

Ron,

I have taken ME for about 40 years, and also MEW and EIM since their first issues. I would say that over the last 10-15 years there has been far more in MEW to interest me compared with the other two; MEW covers general workshop techniques, and the making or improving of workshop equipment. ME, since the start of MEW, has concentrated almost exclusively on projects, most of which you will skim through but get little from. EIM is rather similar, but with a few general workshop articles.

I think the problem from the beginner's point of view is that most of the "good" stuff is in MEW's past, and quite a lot of the articles now are on rather abstruse projects you will not be equipped to do. There are however some quite good series for beginners. Personally I think your best bet would be to watch eBay for a set of MEW and read the back issues, and start a planned program of buying key books.

On books, I can't really comment on the basic ones of recent years as I progressed beyond them before they came out. A basic lathework book and a basic milling book would be good. I agree with Peter that anything by Tubal Cain (Tom Walshaw) is worth reading, and recommend his books in the Workshop Practice series (Drills Taps and Dies, Soldering and Brazing, and Workholding in the Lathe spring to mind). I disagree with Peter about the G H Thomas books; they have probably been the ones having the most influence on me, at least, and I go back to them time and time again. True, the Workshop Manual is mostly based on Myford 7 lathes (which is what GHT used) but the consummate engineering expertise in there is worth anyone's time.

But, whatever you choose to do, have fun, find out what you enjoy doing most, and learn to do it better. To paraphrase Dumbledore, help will always be given here for those who ask for it.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 18/01/2013 23:28:10

Sid,

My apologies - you are right about the bi-monthly publishing - its some time now since I cancelled my subscription, and I'm getting on a bit. I realise that different people like different things, so it is hardly fair to complain about articles which others find interesting. That said, I found the same problems with some of the contents of ME. The Darjeeling Himalaya loco springs to mind. It was a wonderful piece of work, but it went on and on and ...... perhaps better published as a separate book. It would be interesting to know how many people were building this loco, because it is hard to believe that a high proportion of readers were. I remember filling in at least two Customer Questionnaires about magazine contents in the last few years, but I cannot remember ever seeing any results, which may have indicated where readers interests lay.

Harold,

I cannot argue with an insiders explanation of the reasons for introducing magazines. Perhaps what I failed to explain clearly is that I believed ME suffered by the introduction of MEW. Looking at past copies of ME, there were always articles covering both modelling and workshop aspects. Like many people, some of these interested me, and others not so much - however, some of the articles, perhaps outside my usual interests, gave me ideas. Since the split, the balance of articles in ME has changed IMO. ALthough there are occasionally workshop related items, I for one find the range of subjects now covered is considerably smaller than it used to be, making ME of little further interest to me.

You say that many readers 'would not have taken ME just to have a few pages devoted to their interests', and again I have to agree, but then why does MEW use material which at one time would surely have appeared in ME? This implies I need to buy both ME and MEW to get the same content as I used to get in one magazine. It seems to me that you have created the opposite case - why should I buy MEW when it has only a few pages devoted to my interests? I would also point out that not everyone can afford the cost of two magazines, both probably with limited appeal.

Unfortunately, and rather sadly after many years, for readers like me ME/MEW have lost their appeal , so like others I look elsewhere.

In my limited experience (I have 60 years worth of ME and all issues of MEW) ME is aimed at people that actually make models and MEW is aimed at those that would like to make a model but would rather make something for their lathe/mill/whatever instead.

For instance in MEW you will find nothing about how to turn a crankshaft or a piston. There will be no discussion about piston rings.

Also, ME readers are less conservative than MEW readers so they do more ineteresting things and write about it. MEW readers can barely accept that CNC, CAD/CAM, 3D printing actually exist and don't dare talk about making a model in your model engineers' workshop.

So I would suggest you buy ME, buy any of the books above but most of all keep reading these forums.

I take both. Gave up MEW for a few months and got withdrawal symptoms.

The fact there are folks willing to speak up for either over the other speaks volumes about the fact they ARE very different in both feel and content.

I would agree ME has lost out on not having as many 'short sharp' articles to complement the longer series, as these often suit MEW.

As a sometime contributor I would point out that, in most cases, articles are submitted for one or the other magazine and I have rarely heard of the editor suggesting that an article would be

Neil

Bloomin' eck Derry !!

.... ME readers are less conservative than MEW readers so they do more ineteresting things and write about it.

Are you trying to start war!!!

Norman

Personally I find that rather an insulting post; one might almost think that the poster was an obscurantist himself.

Andrew

This is absolute rubbish. ME is allowed to print models and tooling articles.

By tradition MEW does not print model articles and from lots of correspondence, MEW readers do not want models in their magazine.

I used to get complaints about CNC articles in MEW, I have not had one for a long while. Perhaps the non CNC readers of MEW have stopped buying it?

I have not attempted to run CNC articles in ME. I think that would be the kiss of death for ME. Maybe in 10 years time CNC would be fine in ME.

I believe I have a make a crankshaft article that I am going to put into MEW. Techniques such as this are legitimate content for MEW.

Piston rings are more suited to ME and I believe an article is imminent.

regards David

Hear Hear David!

I think the two mags run very well together and are complimentary. Personally I subscribe to MEW and don't have a problem with articles there showing techniques and set -ups such as the crankshaft you propose. I don't object to some CNC content and my previous objection was only to the amount ( I think it was three articles in one issue).

ME I look at in my local newsagent and buy if there is something of interest or if there is a construction series that I may (one day!) tackle.

For the beginner wanting information of machines etc., which this is where started, I suggest thet MEW Has greater relevance.

Cheers

Norman

In the first years of "Model Engineer and Amateur Electrition", the range of subjects was much greater, flying machines, radio, how to make a battery or an Acetylene gas generator, dynamos, electric motors, model boats,......etc etc. Ian S C

Hi Ian,

The older ME had several staff, an in-house workshop and a drawing office. But the big difference was that a much wider range of readers submitted articles ona wider range of subjects. Editors can generate some content but rely on active contributors for breadth of content.

If the folks on this website wrote up what they often put on line in a bit more detail, particularly as short r single installment articles... topics that would suit (in my humble opinion) could be:

• Favourite gadgets
• Workshop tricks/tips/ interesting set-ups/how I solved a problem
• Descriptions of unusual subjects for models
• The story of interesting models
• Profiles of model engineers, (focusing on what they make!)
• Puzzles - the sort you can't easily google the answer for
• More letters
• Simple models or tools that can be described in a few pages
• How to articles (e.g. how to make an arbor and use slitting saws)

The crunch is that people have to write and submit the articles.

Neil

Neil,

I would suggest that the problem is rather than ME has been diluted by the spin off of so many specialist areas (clocks, model boats, tools -> MEW) that little is left except (IMHO) repetitive model locomotives that is already covered by a multitude of magazines. So the wider range of reader went with the other topics...

When I last subscribed there was two repeated model locomotive series by LBSC. Both of which are dated, a simple updating of their machining techniques would have added so much value. (and I already have the original mags with the articles.. so where is the added value?)

If you want to keep your readership there is only so many beginner's article that you can publish...

I do wonder if the previous editorship understood what the younger generation is interested in. Yes the older generation are into model locomotives but I see so few of the younger generation interested in such things, they seem to be into model tractions engines, stationary engines and lots of exciting other things.

I explained all this to the nice young lady last friday when she attempted to encourage me to pay more to renew my subcription than I could pay on line.

Jo

Edited By Jo on 20/01/2013 17:32:24

Hi Jo,

None of the topics I listed is a hobby suited to another magazine

There is plenty more than locos that could be in ME, including things like flash steam hydroplanes which are more likely to appeal to ME readers than Model Boats readers who would only want to see a single issue article at most.

For longer topics I would enjoy seeing covered:

• Steam turbines (explained in a way we can actually understand)
• Scale/near scale IC engines (I'd like to read a modern build of some of ETW's engines)
• Gearboxes and other mechanisms
• Hand powered & miniature machinery
• cars & bicycles
• More on surface finishes
• Applications of new technology (not really cad, more robotics and the like)
• One pagers on mechanical theory (as 'letters to a grandson'
• Stationary engines
• More on heat engines (bring back the annual gnat power competition!)
• Design of small electric motors and generators
• Design for a small magneto
• Small hydraulic systems
• Unusual motors
• Making small pressure gauges
• Sheet metalwork/bodywork skills
• Ordnance
• Model aircraft flight timer
• Historic models (siege engines, crossbows)
• Building the Antikythera mechanism
• Theory of clock making/basics (not just a build I want to know the 'whys'

Will that do for now?

Neil