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Amadeal XJ300 miller T slots

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Wolfie03/01/2012 14:19:28
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502 forum posts
OK panic over they have it listed wrongly on the website
Peter G. Shaw03/01/2012 16:31:53
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If, as I suspect, this machine is the same as the Warco MiniMill, then you may well receive in the toolkit TWO drawbars, one for 12mm and the other for 3/8 inch imperial.
 
I have the Warco MiniMill and suggest the following:
 
Depending on your requirements, buy a set of MT3 direct collets at around £7 each. These fit directly into the spindle with very little sticking out thus giving the maximum stiffness to the milling cutter. It also removes all the messing around with ER adaptors and collets etc.
 
There are two ranges, metric & imperial, but if you are like me, you will standardize on one set, eg metric. In any case, you can always buy individually as the need arises.
 
One advantage of the direct collets is that being as close to the head as they are does give an increase in the available daylight under the head. This may be important. (Later on after you have realised just how rubbish that side spring is, and you have discovered the gas strut modification, you will then be able to gain a further slight increase in the daylight available!)
 
My experience with the Warco machine, and a friends machine is that the plastic gears inside don't last too long initially. They are ok once you've smashed a set because you are then careful, but just in case, there are metal gears available from Arc Euro Trade: look for C3 spares where they are shown as C3/X2 gears.
 
Another thing you may wish to check is the fine feed function - to see if it actually works. Of course, it may just be that both myself and my friend were unlucky in that ours did not work properly initially. Mind you, there is a thread elsewhere on this site by MarcuSweden I think who also had this problem - and others.
 
Anyway, I don't wish to put the damper on your purchase, although I think I've now done just that, but as someone else said on another forum elsewhere: "Treat it as a kit of parts, fettle it up, and it will be a decent little machine". Of course, having never seen Amadeal's equipment, I could well be completely unjustified in saying the above: he may well have sorted out these little niggles.
 
Good luck,
 
Peter G. Shaw
David Clark 103/01/2012 18:23:59
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3357 forum posts
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Hi Terry
We are not available all day every day to deal with problems on the forum.
I have not received any notification from you.
regards David
David Haynes03/01/2012 18:54:22
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26 photos
Hi folks, sorry I caused a stir with the Chronos link, they seem to have this tendency with their addresses being long. It was just before midnight and I was tired, dreading the 5am roll call with the bairn. I couldn't edit it later for reasons discussed elsewhere Editing my own thread so thanks to David C for doing it for me.
 
All the best
Dave
Wolfie03/01/2012 20:01:41
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502 forum posts
Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not
Clive Hartland03/01/2012 20:15:40
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2929 forum posts
41 photos
Its Chinese Wolfie, of course they are plastic gears.
Everything I have picked up this Xmas has been made in china!
One of the modifications is to replace with metal gears as quoted earlier.
I think there is also a mod. using a toothed belt and cogs.
This is why it pays to research your choice of machine when buying.
 
Clive
Wolfie03/01/2012 20:40:16
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502 forum posts
Looks like I'm about to do a crash course in making gear wheels
Terryd03/01/2012 20:55:52
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1946 forum posts
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Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/01/2012 18:23:59:
Hi Terry
We are not available all day every day to deal with problems on the forum.
I have not received any notification from you.
regards David
 
Hi David,
 
I clicked on the 'Report' Tab to report a problem with the message by David Haynes, I assumed that you would receive that message, I did not email you, sorry if you didn't.   I'm not blaming you or anyone specifically, but most forums have a number of member moderators who will deal with problems quickly. I also assumed that there would be a technical bod somewhere who had some monitoring role.
 
Happy new year]
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 21:04:45

David Clark 103/01/2012 21:00:07
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3357 forum posts
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10 articles
Hi Terry
No idea who the report goes to.
Not in the admin section that I can see.
regards David
 
Peter G. Shaw03/01/2012 21:02:08
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1531 forum posts
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Well, you could make them, but....
 
You will need to make a total of four, that's two on the main shaft and two on the intermediate shaft. Plus each gear will require an internal keyway cutting. And then there will be either two spacers to make, or you cut each pair of gears out of one blank. Or for just under £26 you buy them ready made. Oh, and don't forget they are different teeth numbers so no bright ideas about one blank cut in two!
 
Now if you are an expert machinist.....
 
Which I am not....
 
So I have a set in stock ready for when I next break the plastic gears.
 
Incidently, there is a lot of info on the internet about the X2 and it's clones. Be aware that although the Warco MiniMill, and, I think, the Amadeal one, could be described as clones, there are some subtle differences. Hence one does need to be careful about mods to this machine. For instance, there is a gas strut mod available from Little Machine Shop which includes an extended rack, but, there are doubts as to whether or not it is suitable for this variant. By all means have a read, and a look, but just keep a wary eye open.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Terryd03/01/2012 21:02:40
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1946 forum posts
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Posted by Wolfie on 03/01/2012 20:01:41:
Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not
 
 
Hi Wolfie,
 
Plastic gears are not really a problem, they are often used as a 'fail-safe' device so that in the event of a lock up (cock up?) some major component is not damaged. There are also such things as 'shear pins' usually built into mechanisms which will fail easily to protect some other valuable components. We used to build such devices into all of our systems.  Don't forget that Myford and Boxford and many other 'reputable' manufacturers used Tufnol resin gears in the drive trains for that very reason, the concept is not new, it's only surprising to inexperienced 'engineers'.
 
What would you rather have fail, a cheap, easily replaceable gear or an expensive motor? Those who replace them with metal gears etc could find expensive repair bills up the line (and often do).
 
Terry.

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 21:09:26

Peter G. Shaw03/01/2012 21:30:34
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1531 forum posts
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Terry,
 
I don't think these are Tufnol resin. I think they are moulded plastic which do literally break at the drop of a hat. There are indeed many, many reports of plastic gear breakages. As indeed there are many people who have gone down the belt drive route. I would suggest that for the X2 and it's clones, this is a major failing.
 
Having said that, it's something I had never considered, ie that it could be a safety device.
 
It's also interesting that in my case the original gears as supplied by the factory lasted less than a month, whilst the replacement plastic gears are still going strong some considerable time later. Maybe the replacement ones are stronger.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
ps. On my machine, it was anything but easy to change them. In fact, changing the motor would be a darned sight quicker but only because it is bolted on top of the head and the three wires are relatively easy to disconnect.
Stub Mandrel03/01/2012 21:56:05
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
I got started by buying some cheap imperial FC3 cutters with 1/4" shanks and drilling and d-bit finishing a 1/4" hole in the end of a blank MT3 taper, and adding a cross dirlled and tapped hole for a grub screw.
 
My Arc Seig-X2 had a 'secret' modification that none of the other suppliers did. Ketan wouldn't say what it was, only that it was 'inside'. He lost faith in the X2 and now sells an uprated version.
 
I suspect my machine (one of the first batch)  was modified by fitting steel gears. Why? Well for the first half hour of running it in it shrieked like a banshee, now it's quiet, and despite much abuse (such as starting it with a locking pin in the spindle lock hole) I haven't managed to strip a tooth (yet).
 
Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 03/01/2012 22:01:08

John Thorne03/01/2012 22:27:53
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19 forum posts
9 photos
Hi
I bought a AMA25LV mill from Amadeal last year with MT3 taper and I am really pleased with it. Good service from friendly people. I already had ER32 collets and a MT3 taper shank holder. So far this all I have needed to use for milling, drilling and taping. The only other tool I have used in the mill is a 2 ins boring head No Problems so far.
John
David Haynes04/01/2012 06:33:52
168 forum posts
26 photos
I received a letter yesterday from a dear uncle who has a professional engineering background, in which he commented on my research for a mill. Although he is a prolific wood machinist, some things resonated with metal milling. He felt that importance of weight and rigidity was more relevant if taking deep cuts, expected more in commercial than hobby work. This applies equally to plastic gears; if we go in hoping to take 1/2" cuts each time then the thing will shear gears! Before the gears shear, the machine will surely be making complaining sounds and I suppose part of our skill is to not be too heavy. Arc Euro sells gears that may suit X2 similar machine at Old X2 Mill Spares but you can also get a Belt Drive Kit if later on you want to do so. Short links!  Time to give my wee lassy her breakfast!
Dave

Edited By David Haynes on 04/01/2012 06:50:40

Terryd04/01/2012 08:50:37
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1946 forum posts
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Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 03/01/2012 21:30:34:
Terry,
 
I don't think these are Tufnol resin. I think they are moulded plastic which do literally break at the drop of a hat. There are indeed many, many reports of plastic gear breakages. As indeed there are many people who have gone down the belt drive route. I would suggest that for the X2 and it's clones, this is a major failing..............................
..............Peter G. Shaw
 
ps. On my machine, it was anything but easy to change them. In fact, changing the motor would be a darned sight quicker but only because it is bolted on top of the head and the three wires are relatively easy to disconnect.
 
Hi Peter,
 
I didn't say that the gears on the X2 should be plastic, I was referring to generally using sacrificial parts to ensure vital parts were not damaged in the event of a problem occurring in a drivetrain, in answer to Wolfie's cry of anguish.
 
Properly designed and moulded nylon gears can be remarkably strong and resilient. Lets face it Tufnol is simply a brittle resin, reinforced with fabric. I have even seen large leather gears used for machinery which have lasted for many years. I've just remembered this website. As they say their gears "quieten the drivetrain while protecting metal gears".
 
Vee belt drives are often used as slippage is one of their characteristics if problems occur, that's why they should not be too tight and certainly not replaced with toothed belts as some do. These latter are only needed when accurate timing is needed. Engineers have used many materials and devised many techniques over the centuries not just metals.
 
Just a question for you. Which is more expensive, a stripped gear or a motor?
 
Best regards
 
Terry
Terryd04/01/2012 08:53:08
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Wolfie on 03/01/2012 20:01:41:
Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not
 
 
Hi Wolfie,
 
Look here and here. Not everything has to be metal.  Re leather gears, from the website:
 
"Applications include punch presses, forging hammers, turning drums for tanneries, cable winches in mining operations, merry-go-rounds and hundreds of other applications" 
 
Not exactly lightweight applications
 
Best Regards
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 09:36:44

Wolfie04/01/2012 09:30:18
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502 forum posts
My cry of anguish? more of disbelief. What the hell has happened to decent manufacturing these days.
 
OK I can see the value of having a gear go before a motor, but not so much that it will go with little provocation.
 
I can get lengths of nylon, would that be better for replacement gears?
 
OK I understand a spare set is not expensive, but I've never cut a gear so it would be a good new thing to do
Terryd04/01/2012 09:47:20
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Wolfie on 04/01/2012 09:30:18:
My cry of anguish? more of disbelief. What the hell has happened to decent manufacturing these days.

Hi Wolfie,
 
I was using poetic licence, sorry.
 
Nylon on it's own is of little use, in industrial gear applications it is glass filled. There is nothing wrong with manufacturing these days, it is better than ever, just compare cars or aircraft or televisions etc etc of today with those of thirty years ago. Using Nylon (plastic) gears is perfectly acceptable even in quite high loading situations. They have the advantage of less wear, are much quieter and are self lubricating as well as the sacrificial function.
 
I don't know if you have bothered to look at the websites I highlighted but if you do a little research you will find many surprises in engineering. After all before Brunel people would have given a cry of disbelief, "metal Ships - ??????? - impossible they'll sink".  When Priestly demonstrated his electric motor at the Royal Academy, he was asked by an observer, "but what use is it Mr Priestly" - his reply - "what use is a baby."
 
Best regards, keep researching the vast subject of engineering,
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 09:52:04

Terryd04/01/2012 10:14:06
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1946 forum posts
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Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/01/2012 21:00:07:
Hi Terry
No idea who the report goes to.
Not in the admin section that I can see.
regards David
 
Hi David,
 
So it is of no use to use the 'Report' button on a message, to make a report? I think that I would be having a word with whoever is responsible for Systems Admin at your company.
 
Best regards and wishes for a happy and (another) successful new year,
 
Terry
 

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 10:14:22

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