By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

ARGUS oscillator

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Stub Mandrel20/08/2010 21:42:20
avatar
4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
Hi Peter,
 
Welcome to the world of Model Engineering  - breaking a 10BA tap is the TRUE baptism
 
If it is a carbon steel tap you could try heating that corner of the baseplate red hot for a few minutes and letting it cool slowly. You should then be able to force the tap out with a punch if its a through hole. Then polish the base clean again!
 
For future reference use a larger drill - you only need 60% of the thread form to get 90% of the strength, but this reduces the force needed to turn the tap hugely. Dip the tap in cutting oil before using it, and with small taps make a little guide out of an offcut that is flat on the end and drilled square to take the tap and hold it steady without twisting.
 
Neil
Peter Riedie20/08/2010 23:23:06
3 forum posts

If the part is in aluminium then send it for anodizing will remove any broken taps or steel parts including helicoil inserts.

I found that out the hard way.

>

P Riedie

Richard Parsons21/08/2010 09:16:33
avatar
645 forum posts
33 photos
 

The Ferric Chloride solution will work in bronze, brass and gun metal.  It also works in Spherical cast iron. Back to lower level school chemistry (or ‘stinks’ as we called it)! The reason it will work is that in brass etc the alloy has a lower (less reactive) position in the electro chemical series than iron. The hard steel of the tap reacts with the Ferric Chloride in the same way that the ‘Wasting Anode’ protects your central heating system. What you are really doing is making a battery where the iron is the wasting anode and gets eaten away (dissolved).  In cast iron, the carbon in the matrix protects the iron in the casting so that the broken tap is dissolved preferentially.  It can also work in mild steel where the materials in the tap tip the reaction towards the harder material –the tap-. Do not try it if you are using free cutting mild – think how badly this rusts-.

In an ‘etching bath’ dissolving copper on a printed circuit a different reaction is occurring.

Ian S C21/08/2010 10:07:08
avatar
7468 forum posts
230 photos
Can you get at it to put a punch on it and give it a whack, and break it up, I'v used that method, I think the smallest was 1/8" whitworth.Ian S C
Ramon Wilson21/08/2010 10:24:06
avatar
1655 forum posts
617 photos
Well there you go Dick - just goes to prove you can learn something every day.
 
Where I could, I think I would still make a small hollow cutter but that's a matter of preference though its a tip worth knowing. I have seen the tip regarding Alum several times, though never tried it, but never heard of using Ferric chloride. I have a feeling that Alum only works in non ferrous material anyway
 
As a matter of interest how long would you expect the chemical reaction to take say on Petes 10BA tap and why wouldn't the FC etch the surrounding material as it does in normal etching - that is any area exposed to it outside of the hole. Given this specific situation wouldn't it be quite difficult to get sufficient down the flutes of a 10BA hole.
Thinking about it I guess you could mask the area - sellotape? - expose the hole then make a substantial 'dam' on the selotape and then try to get the fluid down the flutes and the trapped air out using a thin bit of wire?.
 
If - and hopefully it won't  - too soon (fingers crossed)  - I have the same misfortune I will certainly try your method out 
 
Regards - Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 21/08/2010 10:26:16

NJH21/08/2010 10:36:04
avatar
2314 forum posts
139 photos
ARC Eurotrade sell diamond core drills - the smallest is 3mm. I used one of these recently when I broke off a tap in the Stent I am building. The drill was destroyed in the process but  it got the broken tap out !
Good luck
Norman
Ian S C21/08/2010 12:42:47
avatar
7468 forum posts
230 photos
The base is mild steel, so any chemical method  is not going to work. If the tap is carbon steel it could possibly be heated the drilled out, other wise mechanical means must be used, or electrical. Ian S C
Richard Parsons21/08/2010 12:51:57
avatar
645 forum posts
33 photos
 
Raymond,
I do not want to go into this problem too deeply. Reactive chemicals like Alum (Potassium Aluminium Sulphate), Ferric Chloride are intrinsically chemically reactive. They would all rather be some other compound with a higher energy barrier and so be more stable. 

To do the tap removal trick: -

1.    Degrease the tap and hole. This is important!

2.    Build a little dam around the hole using wax/modelling clay/shellac/PCB resist. Do not let any go down the hole.

3.    Use an eye dropper/pasture pipette or W.H.Y. drip in your reagent.

4.    Make sure you do not get air trapped in the hole.

5.    Let the reaction start. Wash out and refresh as needed.

Do not use acids they will not work well in this way.

Selotape (Durex for those who live upside down where the Cross hangs in the sky)  I have never used it. (U.K. stuff has semi-water soluble glue).

The last time I had to pull this stunt was in 1996 on a 12 BA tap (or there about) I used some candle wax (from a real ‘Frankie Randall’ not one of those smelly things the S.W.A.M.B.O’ have in the bathroom).  I like good old Carbolic anf a lump of bath brick -to get rid of any clinkers- my self

For small taps It works! And is cheaper than building a ‘Sparky’.

Good luck

Dick

Edited By Richard Parsons on 21/08/2010 12:55:08

John Olsen21/08/2010 13:12:08
1294 forum posts
108 photos
1 articles
Well here in New Zealand Durex is something you might want to take on a date if you had high hopes....I don't know what it might be in Oz, they speak a different language over there.
NJH21/08/2010 15:38:02
avatar
2314 forum posts
139 photos
Good Grief John!
Presumably though they don't go out on hot dates with a roll of sellotape in their pocket!
 
Sorry to have drifted off a bit here Peter but my justification is that if you have broken a tap off in your work anything that can raise a smile is good.
..................and why is it that disasters of this kind always seem to occur after considerable work has been carried out on the component and scrap & start again is not an option?
 
Norman

Edited By NJH on 21/08/2010 15:39:13

Richard Parsons21/08/2010 15:40:29
avatar
645 forum posts
33 photos
John,
I think you have it in one!  I could tell how one from a land where one once needed a criminal record instesd of an enttry visa to get there  got his face slapped in a chain stationers - but I wont.  That ia enough of the traditional ritual insuts. so I will buy you all a beer and as you are not here I will have to drink it for you.
Dick 

Edited By Richard Parsons on 21/08/2010 15:43:07

Ramon Wilson21/08/2010 18:20:45
avatar
1655 forum posts
617 photos
It's called 'Sods Law' Norman -  surely it has to be one of our biggest 'stress raisers' on a job - a long worked at component with oodles of tapped holes and just one more left to do
 
Talking of Sods Law - after two days of searching for a set of car keys where I looked everywhere I found lurking in the back of a drawer the Dickson tool holder spanner which I was convinced I had thrown out with a pile of swarf several weeks ago. The keys? in a jacket pocket - where else
 
Hope you manage to get your tap out successfully Pete.
 
Ramon
 
 PS thanks for the info Dick - interesting alternative label on the sticky stuff!!

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 21/08/2010 18:28:20

Charlie,21/08/2010 23:17:51
76 forum posts
1 photos
Hi Peter You could try using a left handed drill bit,(as if you would have one of those of the right size kicking around),A long shot but has been known to work,Good luck ,
Peter Harding23/08/2010 02:37:02
16 forum posts
4 photos
Many thanks to all those who have responded to my little problem!
 
I don't have internet at home so coming into work today was a nice surprise of all those willing to help.  As this tap is for one of the cylinder to base plate bolts and will be pretty much hidden by the steam chest I don't have to overly worry about the looks of the repair.  I will take all of your practical methods on board and let you know what I have decided.  After walking some 22km this weekend I won't be standing up at the lathe for a few more days
 
Also I recieved the first parts of my Blowfly locomotive this weekend. Frames, buffer beams and all stretchers for the locomotie aswell as the bogie sideframes and bolsters for the riding car.  All laser cut for less than I could get the plain metal for
 
Pete
Stub Mandrel26/08/2010 20:59:34
avatar
4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
Jasper Carrott had a great routine about ASussies and Durex...
 
Neil
Peter Harding27/08/2010 01:17:42
16 forum posts
4 photos
Well I emigrated to Australia in the 80's and I've never seen Durex except at the chemists
 
Pete
David Clark 127/08/2010 10:27:11
avatar
3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi There
Can we stop talking about sellotape etc and get back on to model engineering?
regards David
 

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Sign up to our Newsletter

Sign up to our newsletter and get a free digital issue.

You can unsubscribe at anytime. View our privacy policy at www.mortons.co.uk/privacy

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
cowells
Sarik
MERIDIENNE EXHIBITIONS LTD
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

 

Donate

donate