FAULTY DRILL BITS !

i rang RDG and they said the drill bits on ebay are prob fake because they can't even buy them in for that price ... i will have a play with speeds and lubes, coolant and such to see what it is i'm doing wrong .. thanks guys ...

edit ... he also said the photo of the bits is different because the casing was changed and they come in a plastic case now instead of a metal case ... if the bits from ebay are the same as i bought from RDG then i was bent over and well and truly shafted .... 

Edited By BASS 666 on 15/03/2022 15:08:27

The only way to find out is to buy some. Plenty of good reasons why genuine stuff turns up cheap on the web but plenty of opportunity for duff gear as well.

As always, customers are much more likely to be conned by unknown fly-by-night sellers than reputable suppliers, though even they get caught sometimes! ebay has a complaints procedure, so there's a chance of getting something back if a bad item turns up and the supplier won't fix it.

The difference between genuine Dormer and fake is likely to be how fast they wear out. In which case an amateur might not be able to tell the difference between a drill that cuts steel to best Dormer performance and one that's only half as good. Might take months before a problem emerges, perhaps never, because we use drills rather than run comparative tests. How many 10mm diameter, 30mm deep holes would you expect to make before a twist drill goes blunt? Hand on heart, does anyone on the forum really know how Presto, Dormer, Guhring and not-too-cheap unbranded drills compare?

With a few exceptions I've done OK on ebay. Buying too cheap caused my disappointments rather than fakes. I take the line than buying 'bargains' is always risky, and there must be no tears if I get it wrong! This is why I don't buy Rolex wristwatches from men in pub car-parks!

Dave

Ebay seller appears to be a legitimate UK business with a VAT number and premises in Carlisle, so I think it would be a mistake to bundle them in with overseas box shippers and a good idea to avoid making judgements about their products when you have not actually purchased them.

Regarding Brazil made Dormer, they are not hiding the origin and would think they are of the same quality. I have some, and they work just as well as the UK made ones. I have Kennametal inserts made in the USA, UK, Germany and China and the origin is clearly marked and quality is consistant.

Simon, Bill Et al, The thread started with a conversation between me and a member, as he was having trouble drilling some holes. The following day I was in a local tool stockists and mentioned said conversation to be shown a good quality drill bit that had been COMPLETELY wrongly ground - it had NO cutting edge at all. After grinding it had been coated, TiN. MY question was had anybody else come across new, wrongly or poorly ground drill bits ? Noel.

I thought that was the case, but did wonder if other folk might be latching onto the wrong thing re. BASS 666's problem.
Yes I've had some bits supplied with very odd profiled ends, mainly when purchasing cheap sets from Aldi/Lidl etc.
Most of the bits in the sets have been OK, but odd ones have been way off, to the extent of the cutting edge never meeting the workpiece. Might be OK in wood where the work will deform with more pressure, but certainly u/s in metal.
That said, I have still bought cheap sets from time to time, and re-sharpened where required.
The HSS itself seems reasonable, just the grinding geometry.
I use the Lidl sets for normal day to day use, and my better quality ones when I have a need for a specific hole size, such as a tapping job.

Bill

I bought a set of 'tungsten' twist-drills at an ME exhibition a few years ago. When I first used one of them it 'untwisted' as soon as it started cutting, so I ended up with straight flutes ! Needless to say, that set went into the bin before they could do any more damage - the case came in handy later for some better drills though.

I have had some Brazilian Dormer drills and the front end goes from ok to appalling, seems to change with sizes so perhaps its poor sharpening set up?

Shame to see the once quality names joining the pack to provide junk quality made by cheap labour under appalling working conditions in poorer countries. There seems to be very little pride in product left in the modern world.

(And I suppose old gits have been saying similar things ever since the second tree root was carved into a club in a cave somewhere in the Neander Valley.)

For the vast majority of home DIY'ers who put up the occasional shelf then the drill bit quality matters less than price when popped into a cheapo cordless drill. Under those circs it’s not surprising that Dodge and Blag Drill Co knocks stuff out to accommodate the market and then it's hardly a stretch to stamp Dormer or Guhring etc on the blank instead of Wong Hoal. Once we got to this globalisation situation then Trading Standards lost its teeth.
For all that I've been quite happy with my jobber quality drills being more than capable of outperforming me. When it comes to a tap sized hole half the folk on here seem to recommend they’re on the larger size anyway and if there's really need for a 'correct' sized hole than reaming or boring is indicated.
I've never had a jobber drill that wouldn't cut metal except as per my previous when this idiot had the mill in reverse.

pgk

I've had some appallingly ground drills from UK Drills and Rennie from ebay, always the smaller sizes, I usually hunt around for old stock Dormer and the like when I'm at a loose end.

I've not used drills from RDG but have found their milling cutters and with the exception of a poor SOBA knurling tool things from them they are good value for money.

Having said that I do quite like the better quality drills from Toolstation if I need to get one in an emergency...

FOLLOW UP ! The tool stockist mentioned at the beginning of the thread is giving me the drill bit that started this, which I will photo and put on here so you can all see what I was on about ! Noel

When Dormer moved their production from the UK to Brazil they shipped out all the production equipment. We were involved in moving some of the heat treatment facilities. I suppose as time has gone on most of the people who went out there to set it up will have been replaced by a local workforce and management. Perhaps it should not be considered the same comany these days.

Peter

Before Brazil, Dormer manufactured in Italy and Mexico.

The company, making good products but losing money, was acquired by Sandvik 30 years ago.

Sandvik's HQ is in Stockholm, but it looks like a multi-national to me.

Sandvik merged Dormer with Pramet(Czechoslovakia) and the grouping currently trades as Dormer-Pramet. They manufacture in Czechoslovakia, Brazil, USA and India.

Few companies are the same these days! Who owns them and where they manufacture and pay tax is fluid and far from simple.

Dave

Pramet are in the Czech Republic, there hasn't been a place called Czechoslovakia since 1 Jan 1993.

Martin C

And yet strangely we all knew what he meant?

Presumably you meant Czechia.

As a rebranding for promotion and logo reasons I still think that was a mistake - too similar to Chechnya.

pgk

Good morning all.

Drill bits are a bit of a lottery nowadays it would appear. New old stock Dormer drills are my preference, and can often be bought for little money on ebay etc. Only a couple of weeks ago I got ten 5/16th Dormer drills for £15 delivered. I've found that there's little difference between Brazilian Dormer, and old UK Dormer.

I bought a box of Ruko drills from MSC some years ago. They went from 1 mm to 10 mm in .5mm increments, and there were 10 of each. Once I'd got shot of a few that were bent, I found that they were quite simply awful! They would break with ease, and were really only any good for making pilot holes in soft stuff on the lathe or mill. One daren't use them freehand.

Yet a set of 'el cheapo' far eastern blacksmith drills from MSC I bought have had some serious abuse, have been reground many times, and are still going.

Cheers.

Stewart.

I used to buy my smaller drill bits from UK drills but the sharpening was rubbish, obviously no quality control.

Tony

I am rather surprised that people have had bad experience with Dormer drills, I have various sets of Dormer drills and hundreds of loose ones and really can’t remember a dud among all of them. Being a top brand they will be first in line for the fake brigade to copy. Hopefully major suppliers will source them from the proper sources and should be the genuine item.

Mike