Not the time to be complacent about Covid

My intent to post here about COVID is to just inform other of what is going on here, and not get into an involved arguement about vax/novax. Each person will have to decide whether they want to get the vax, and should have the choice about what sort of medical treatment they get, without force/coercion/threats.

For the record, my wife and I are not vax'ed, and will never get the vax or any booster.

The logic being that the vax has never gone through the normal vax testing period, and indeed, they even had to change the definition of vax since the "experimental gene therapy" was previously not considered a vax.

The testing for the vax was never completed because all the test animals died, so that does not really inspire confidence in the vax.

The vax has the highest death rate among all the vaccines that have ever been produced.

The chances of surviving COVID here are over 99%, and my wife and I have both had COVID, and recovered with no lasting ill effects. Thus the body's normal immune system did what it has been designed to do for perhaps 1 million years.

Around here, every death regardless of the cause is counted as COVID. Car crashes, suicides, you name it, because if they declare it a COVID death, then they get a significantly larger payout from the government.

So now they are going back and resvising the actual COVID death numbrs, and finding that COVID deaths are perhaps 1/12 of what were reported at the height of the hysteria.

A few weeks ago, one of the largest states in India with a population of 230 million saw their death rate drop to zero, with the use of Ivermectin. This is not blissful ignorance, but rather fact, and rather hard to overlook.

It would seem that society is divided into two camps, and the vac camp cannot and will not consider that there is any other treatment for COVID other than the vax. I am not sure why this single-mindedness is so pervasive.

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Why would only one treatment to any disease be considered? That would not be a scientific approach to solving diseases.

A real scientific study would look at any/every treatment, and objectively determine which method is working best.

The scientific method that has always been used for vaccines in the past has been shut down for this vax, and anyone raising a red flag about all the vax casualties is attacked and shouted down in the public square.

That is why I say it has become politicized. It has become akin to the Salem witch hunts.

Once they determine that you are a witch (unvax'ed), the only solution is the stake burning thing.

Logic and rational go out the window once hysteria takes over, and hysteria has most definitely taken over.

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I am not trying to force anyone to take any medical treatment, but the same cannot be said for many.

The "Its for the good of the group" mentality has met with disastrous results in previous history; look no further back than 1930's Germany.

A straw man arguement is being used, ie: this vaccine is just like all the others, however, this vax is not like the others, and has never been tested in the normal trials that the other vax's have undergone.

And they assured us very vocally that "Nobody will ever be forced to take the vax". And yet this is precisely what they are doing now.

What is next, forced monthly booster vax's? Boosters for the boosters? Once you allow someone else to make your medical decisions, you are subject to their tyranny.

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Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:06:37

Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:07:25

Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:07:57

There wil be no end to it.

Once the politicians determine that they can force you do to anything/take anything they decide to dictate, then you are no longer a free person who can determine your own destiny.

You are their test animal, and if the tests don't work out, they have zero liability.

You on the other hand will be stuck with massive health bills (in the US) and/or funeral costs should you get the all to often massive blood clots or heart inflamation.

If the vax works so well, let them stand behind it, and accept liability or it.

Let them help and pay for the damage the vax is causing in so many people of all ages.

Just my 2 cents, to give you my line of reasoning, which is not based on fear, paranoia, ignorance, or any other irrational base.

Anti-vax is not anti-anything, but rather a common sense approach, to wait and see how clinical trials turn out for a new and untested drug of any type.

Common sense has perished in the rush to find a simple one-size-fits-all solution to a highly complex disease, and in the end, I think people will pay a terrible price for that (many already have, including children).

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Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:02:38

Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:08:35

Fortunately Darwinism will resolve the truth behind the beliefs of many.

One can hardly call a vaccine unproven when it has been administered to millions. While vaccine side effects occur they are mostly trivial, but social media does like to pump up the few serious or fatal cases. As for comments about genetic manipulated vaccines being something new - they are not. I was using sub-unit vaccines where a piece of relevant viral material is introduced into bacteria to make then generate an antigenic protein or vaccines where viral material was broken down and separated so only part of the virus was used to trigger an immune response - over 20 years ago in cats.

I find it surprising that folk who are sceptical about vaccine safety will happily self-medicate with a product that most respected organisations consider unproven. But then snake-oil salesmen have made fortunes for centuries with wild claims.

Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19

We are uncertain whether ivermectin reduces or increases mortality compared to no treatment

The only paper I found supporting Ivermectin

The weirdest aspect of this pandemic was the bizarre early advices given. It's self-evidently primarily a respiratory virus and spread initially by droplet and only secondarily from contaminated surfaces yet mainstream advice was hand-washing with only very late advice regarding masks and then poorly effective masks! Ventilation has always been the gold standard for prevention of respiratory disease in any factory farm.

I sourced a PP3 mask early on but do admit to downgrading (from looking like ant-man) now that I've had my vaccines. I do hope that hand sanitiser will be enforced forever in food shops, pandemic or not, when you see some of the customers in there.

pgk

I think we should just get on with it now

Those who want to hide can hide and the rest of us can continue as before

I want xmas and the pub quiz back!

You can have Christmas. All of it. Forever. That would be worth a pandemic.

The dishonesty of the main stream media is basically malpractice.

A story today mentions ".......in an attempt to force doctors to give her Ivermectin, a de-wormer".

The narrative that the MSM writes over and over is that Ivermectin is a horse dewormer.

But the truth (and fact that you will never read in the mainstream media) is that the folks who invented Ivermectin won the Nobel Prize for it, for use in humans, not horses, and it is on the list of the World Health Organization List of Essential Medicines (for humans).

Only a naive person would believe that any medicine can only be used for one discovered purpose, and only be used either on animals or humans, but not both.

I know that even if Ivermectin is proven beyond any shadow of a doubt by science to be an effective treatment for COVID, many would never accept that. Why is that?

And I know many who are vax'ed who hope that I and other un-vaxed die just so their point can be proven (that only the vax works).

Its not about saving lives, or treating disease, it is about being right, and insisting in forcing your vision of what is right on everyone else in society. It is a pathological thing in my opinion.

I personally hope that both the vax'ed and unvax'ed people all remain healthy and survive this thing called COVID.

I wish no ill feelings or harm on anyone else, regardless.

Can others make this statement with a clear conscience?

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Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:18:13

The definition of being 'fully vaccinated' is going to be changed to include so called 'booster jabs'.

Stay safe, stay in, stay alone. .....

One can hardly call a vaccine unproven when it has been administered to millions.

The fact that millions have taken the vaccine proves nothing.

Lots of people drank the Jim Jones coolaid, but they are not available for comments at this time.

Basic fallacy lesson 101: Everyone else is doing it, so it must be the right thing to do.

One large online media company in the US (I won't name it) shut down a 100,000 person chat about all the adverse affects and deaths that the vax was causing.

Why does this information have to be censored across all social media?

Wouldn't an open scientific mind want to read everything and decide for themselves?

I fully expect this thread (or at least my posts) will be deleted; it seems censorship is the new science these days.

Censor anything that goes against the "narrative".

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Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:43:10

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:44:01

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:44:36

True, however my statement followed with " While vaccine side effects occur they are mostly trivial "

There are robust systems for adverse medicine reporting and serious studies of risk-benefits of vaccination as a result of those millions of doses. As indeed there are some for risk benefit of ivermectin and other therapies.

pgk

I hear what you are saying, but I am not so convinced of the "trivial" part.

Only time will tell the full story.

My large extended family is divided like the Hatfields and McCoys, often within families.

I can't recall many things in my lifetime being so devisive and detrimental to family and relationships, except perhaps the Vietnam war. That divided a lot of folks in the US, mostly in a generational way (young vs old), mainly because the young got sent off, and came back six months later in a body bag.

I just missed that war.  I was about two years away from the draft when it ended, but I remember sitting up at night, wanting to defend freedom and country, but knowing how it would most likely turn out for me.

Let hope that COVID will soon become a distant memory, with no appreciable cases anywhere in the world.

That is my wish.

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Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 08:58:29

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 08:59:39

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 09:01:05

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 09:01:20

Nothing like a good 'Conspiracy Theory' to start the mornings reading. I think PatJ has found most of them

John

I love the Americans,my late auntie married one & my uncle is still alive plus 2 cousins but by god they do like an alleged conspiracy whereas we in the UK don't. I have no idea who is right, perhaps a bit of both?

Tony

Many thanks for your valued opinions Mr Rhodes, my comments re Smokers and Obesity were well documented at the time but your head must have been busily engaged in an internal inspection at that time.

Your last sentence I find rather contradictory but hey ho, that's only MY opinion. As a "Heartless idiot", my own choice to protect myself from the ministrations of other heartless idiots is obviously wrong. At this point in time, it's not Law but if it was changed would this make a difference? I think not, On the one hand, we have a "Choice" not to protect ourselves from something that can cause premature death but can't BY LAW choose death as an option.

Regards Ian. - - - - - A heartless idiot.

sorry, double clicked.

Edited By Circlip on 17/11/2021 09:46:29

Gov. policy and the media tend to exert most of the cultural influence where individuals are concerned, which is why US citizens tend to be different in their outlook

The US media tends to exaggerate risk, so 50 Russian missiles in Cuba was going to be the end of the world while at the same time most of us in the west were surrounded by hundreds of missiles for 30 years which were 7 minutes away

Many of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for vaccines, the chap who was credited with vaccines Edward Jenner has been credited with saving the second most humans in history, after a chap called Jesus

If Edward Jenner was a religion he would have 500 million plus followers once you factor in breeding rates

Life is risk and vaccines make life a bit less risky

Edited By Ady1 on 17/11/2021 09:54:47

Yes PatJ , the 'State' denied that 'contaminated blood ' brought misery and death to thousands from the 1960's onwards until people like me exposed the lies.

A girl-friend died because of it , transfused 1963 , died 1983.

And then there was Thalidomide, etc, etc.

To PatJ, well said and I agreed with your comments, science should be about debate and alternative points of view

this appears to have been ruthlessly suppressed and only one narrative reigns supreme, as x military I have had many vaccines and I find the term "anti vaxer" insulting I want to see this one tested properly before I even consider having it, an attitude not unreasonable is it? As I see it no one shoud be coerced by for example no jab or no job-- its an outrage

I wish everyone well

Mick