2D and 3D Cad Software Recommendations

+1 for Onshape. I have used Solidworks in the past (before retirement) and I find Onshape similarly intuitive to use, being produced by a group of ex Solidworks people, so I might be biased. It is free and shows no signs of disappearing after six years or so. It will export STL files for 3D printing and create 2D drawings from the model.

The only downside is that, being browser based it can get rather slow for complicated models. I have however managed to import a complete Antikithera mechanism into it so it will certainly handle most of our needs!

Russell

I have sent you a PM

Just like to express my thanks to the advice and suggestions so far.

Currently I am looking at Atom3D and Solid Edge, and am waiting for a usable key for the Turbocad Designer trial.

Also quite like the look of MOI.

I've access to Onshape, but I'll get to try that later.

Fusion has a lot to offer and I'm using that as the benchmark, I've found that its only on my laptop that the 2D drawings are unusaable, not sure why that is, its not screen resolution as I've tried that, do not know what has changed.

Dave J

Hi Cadders, I too am trying to update myself into a better 2d/3d cad app (from old ACAD days)

Is anyone else out there as deeply suspicious of cloud/online apps

Just cos Im paranoid doesnt make me wrong

I have enough trouble living with the fact that you have virtually no privacy left worth a damn these days

I habitually use an alias presence on the web (not because Im in anything remotely improper) just to confuse all the data mining and reselling that goes on without your consent. But I daresay thats probably a false sense of security as my alias is probably tied back to my personal data by now anyway.

I just dont like the idea of my data being held by a third party . who knows what might happen despite all the hyped promises of security

If my data stays on my thumb drive, I have control

Online apps often contain ownership issues that should make you uncomfortable - just look at what happens on social media, your data once out there never goes away despite closing your acc etc. These foolish young things escapades - as we all did - may well come back to haunt youngsters and blight their employment records. Just look at the way the press pillory public figures for their youthful follies that get shown up in long forgotten snapshots.

And if you think this is OTT have you noticed how aggressive Google is trying to gather you into its kraal

I have a laptop with W10, used intermittently. If I leave it for a month hibernating offline. dont think I can just open the lid and carry on. M$ insists on carrying out a W10 update right away, so my laptop becomes unusable for up to an hour while this is going on often involving several reboots. The only sure way is to leave my laptop connected 24/7 - how sinister is that. Ive tried several workarounds - like update at 3am etc but W10 always interferes

So the question here is

How much control do I have over my CAD time. Providers want you locked into their subscription model and use dirty tricks to turn you into a beached whale. Give you goodies in the trial period and withdraw them a year later eg Fusion = 2d drawings

If you are going to invest 100's hours learning an app, is it going to come back and bite you painfully $$$

Big companies get a different deal to hobbyists cos they have financial muscle of 1000's users licenses

What I take from the above valuable observations is take the trouble at the outset to keep dedicated older machines running eg XPSP3, W7 etc cw installation progs and operating versions and beware of allowing so called updates. Only allow updates away from your original working prog - you never know what dirty tricks, snooping etc may be played with opening an update port. I have experienced such tricks played by big Corps who buy out small gem apps then set the monetisers on them and ruin them particularly for the hobbyist

But a good CAD app is very rewarding - like the philosphers stone

Brian,

I don't do social media of any sort and, like you, dislike the idea of storing my files in a cloud. For that reason, I use a mixture of 2D and 3D programs. As I said earlier in this thread, I use Alibre Atom 3D to do my initial design. This I then use to produce 2D DXF files for dimensioning in my preferred 2D QCAD - just because I'm quite well versed in it. (I'm too old and lazy to completely learn how to do it "properly" in Atom.) Then, if I want or need to produce some gcode for the router table, I use Fusion 360 in Manufacture mode. I do not, however, save those files online; rather I export them to my computer and store them there. Complicated, maybe, but it suits me.

John

Thanx John. I try to warn my granchildren about the perils of social media but try putting an old head on young shoulder (probably cos my heads to big and heavy for such small frames)

QCAD pro must be a steal at £30. It seems to have a high reputation and if so I have no problem contributing to the cause

I just hate all the hype and dirty tricks in the CAD industry. Do they take us for fools?

Its the monetising bean counters who spoil things and dont recognise the value and contributions hobbyists can make in improving a product. If your a professional usually on the clock you dont have time to look into areas of a program that are problems let alone report them. Just work around curse and get the job out what ever.

Been there done that GTSATTSTPI

Brian,

Ditch Windows in favour of Linux. I use Linux Mint, but there are others. Updates are then done at a time of your choosing.

Despite objections to the contrary, eg the Linux fanboys who think that Windows programs and Linux should never mix, I use an obsolete Win 32 bit CAD program quite successfully under Linux using an intermediatry program called Wine. There are other CAD programs, eg QCAD which have Linux versions hence no need for Wine.

Similar to others here, I will not and never will, succumb to using cloud based software. Neither will I use Facebook et al and as far as possible I try not to use Google, DuckDuckGo being my preferred search engine.

I realise Linux isn't for everyone, and it does mean putting in some effort to get to know it, but in reality once over the initial learning curve, it becomes second nature. I certainly have no regrets over leaving the malign clutches of Microsoft et al. And for what it's worth, my desktop is setup in a similar fashion to the old XP desktop. (Yes, Microsoft did have some reasonable ideas!)

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

I'm not worried about the data for my jobs being stored elsewhere. This is a virtual mockup for my hotrod project, and it's of no use to any one else:

that's down to the body and unusual combination of mechanical parts. However, if the data is for a customer that would be a very different decision.

Cloud storage is just one of the compromises low cost or free programs force on you. Some of the other limitations of the free version of Fusion 360 are much more likely to make me reluctantly pay the subscription: only 10 editable files at any one time, and not being able to edit inserted parts(although I do try not to use them)

I do agree with you on subscriptions. I would much rather pay a one-off fee to own the program. That makes you less susceptible to gouging due to change of ownership or the provider going out of business. My free Fusion needs renewing at the end of the week.

So John are we saying that Atom3d is a perp licence for £201 +vat and an annual ug of £70 (is this compulsory?

and it can expot dxf to a gcode generator for cnc (obviously there are other stages to get a full cnc file

but you export dxf to Qcad to make dims shop drgs

Atom 3D is a one off payment, if you want the upgrades you pay the annual fee, this is not compulsory, drawings can be exported to a cam programme to generate g code, Meshcam, for instance which is sold by the same people as Alibre. I am 99% sure it will also do three view workshop style drawings.

Brian,

Yes Atom3D (as with all Alibre software) is a perpetual licence. The charge for 12 months of updates is entirely optional. If you choose not to purchase updates, you remain on the version initially purchased. Of course radical changes to future versions of Windows might mean that an older version may not work on a new computer, but that is a risk with any software.

Atom3D can export DXF from its 2D Drawings workspace.

Atom3D is perfectly capable of dimensioning drawings, I can't comment on why a user might choose to do that step in another software package.

Brian,

To clarify - I bought the licence for Atom3D when it was on special offer and an extended trial period through MEW, a couple of years ago. I also pay the annual maintenance charge, but that's a personal choice. If you choose not to, you won't get upgrades after the first year. I export dxf files so that I can manipulate them in QCAD, specifically to change the layout and add dimensions. All that can be done by Atom, of course, but requires more learning time invested than I'm willing to commit. In order to produce gcode, I save the design in Atom to an STP file which is then opened in Fusion 360, the necessary procedures are carried out and the resulting post processing provides the gcode.

John

As I've previously stated in this thread - I'm a very happy user of Solid Edge Community Edition - which is a free, lifetime licence that is installed and runs locally on my Win 10 laptop - with my designs and drawings all stored locally too. No Cloud, No Fees! So what's not to like??

The only 'technical' difference between SE-CE and the commercial versions is that native SE-CE files cannot be opened with commercial (paid-for) SE versions and vice versa. This really is not a problem in practice for any amateur CAD user such as myself.

Of course, the other difference is that the commercial equivalent to SE-CE (which I believe to be Solid Edge Foundation) currently costs £161 pm (paid annually and exc. VAT) for a single seat licence. So SE-CE users are getting something that would have cost them £2,318 per annum before Siemens offered Solid Edge 2020 CE a year or two ago.

I can understand that others have their own CAD preferences, because you naturally tend to stick with what you are most familiar with (I used TurboCAD for over 20 years) but I think that SE2020 Community is an such an amazing deal for Hobbyists and frankly I'm puzzled why more here are not grabbing it with both hands.

Regards,

IanT

Indeed the choice is bewildering with so many competing claims. All CAD users will have their pet apps and brand loyalty. Its understandable given the time invested in becoming fluent.

I wonder if I tried to compile a comparator spreadsheet for hobbyists with inputs from you guys might help

Will put my simplistic thinking cap on

All will be fully disclosed here for member benefit of course.

From a noob view its very difficult to make these judgements from the web because of the smoke screen hype associated with many products. most wont tell you basics like import/export file types, 2d shop drgs o/p, hobby cost, etc

I can do the legwork but the info needs to come from you guys

Here's some providers

Acad Inventor

Fusion 360

Solidworks

Solid Edge

QCad

MoI

Creo

Atom3D

Tinkercad

Librecad

Turbocad

autosketch

Onshape

Freecad

apologies for omissions

I will post a suggested list of fields tomorrow

BTW I tried pasting a spreadsheet but it wont work here. I will have to turn it into a piccie

Edited By brian jones 11 on 05/09/2021 23:46:59

No smoke screens with Alible, click the "detailed" tab near the top of this page and you will get full detail of what each of there offerings can or cannot do by clicking each heading on the left.

Or the UK agent has it all here including costings

Edited By JasonB on 06/09/2021 07:17:17

One slight problem with a comparison based on what others report is that there are some reports in this thread that contain factual errors. I've noticed it with regard to the products that I know, so it probably also applies to others.

I doubt that the errors are deliberate - but they could be important to somebody making a choice.

I'm not a Sold Edge (or 3D CAD) expert Brian - but I'd be happy to contribute SE feature details for your comparison.

However, I do know there is at least one heavy duty SE user occasionally visits here, so I'm happy to move aside for superior knowledge if it steps forward.

Regards,

IanT

Q

No smoke screens with Alible, click the "detailed" tab near the top of this page

uq

that s great JB a fine example of what we need

I will start my collection, my problem is how to display this, a large wide format spreadsheet would be best IMHO but cant upload this here. I noticed one suggestion for an XL file is to use dropbox which I believe is user friendly and the xls can be downloaded for personal viewing hoping this doesnt break any rules

Perhaps this needs to be done by pm

advice pls

cont

Here are some features I i put together pls add omissions/corrections . These will form the fields of the table

Pls highlight notable limitations which I will place at the end along with misc comments

Much of the boxes I will try to get website info. User personal exp will be highlighted in italics

Hope this will help to clear the mist

1. Product ver
2. Year started
3. Owner/parent
4. Home desktop
5. Local hd storage
6. File type export
7. File typ import
8. License
9. Subscription
10. Cloud
11. 2d shop drgs
12. Multi assy
13. CAM simulation
14. CAM 2.5axis
15. CAM 3axix
16. An industry std
17. Marketable skill
18. Hobby use
19. Learning curve
20. Tutorial quality
21. 3^rd party exts
22. Bugs
23. Crashes
24. Non manifold warning
25. 3D printing
26. CNC
27. Best for
28. Entry method 2D to 3D, 3D+2D
29. Sheet metal
30. Scripting
31. Parts families
32. Rendering

Some of the proposed fields may either not be clear, or may be used differently by different companies (or both).

Several terms are very subjective, hence potentially difficult to get a fix on.

Don't let me put you off though....