DHL Rip Off

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Good Morning, Duncan

Yes, I am aware of that ... and it is consistent with the ‘total value’ usage

My point was that different terminology is used for the threshold decision point:

“ other goods worth more than £15 “

I have always believed there to be an important distinction between the worth of the goods, and the total value reckonable for VAT

... if you do get clarification from HMRC, I would be very interested.

MichaelG.

DHL are fantastic for fast delivery from anywhere in the world, import charges are a major factor when determining whether to use them or not.

Price you are charged is price of goods + postage. only really worth it if total you pay would be less than uk purchase.

China post is quite quick these days + very little chance of paying import duty/fees, one should always factor it in though, just in case.

Michael's right; the gov.uk wording is ambiguous. However, it may not alter the price of fish. Most of the information on gov.uk is a simplified summary of the actual legislation with a big risk important details are lost in translation. I think it would be necessary to read the hideously complicated source, and to check case law to ensure the point hasn't already been clarified.

I doubt DHL are profiteering significantly. Their core business is delivering packages but at borders they have to meet customs obligations involving extra checks and admin. That means employees, tax, office-space, computer systems, recovering money from customers, dealing with refusals and a shower of other overheads. As always, the customer pays...

Dave

Got through to HMRC, quite painless really on webchat. The 'cost of goods' includes postage, so VAT is payable, but in answer to SOD, I've already paid them to bring it from China, DHL know about borders, the handling charge should have bee included in the original cost then I'd have known about it upfront and been able to not buy if I so chose. I don't pay £11 VAT collection charge to Screwfix when I buy something, it's all done by the little grey cells of a computer.

As it is the total cost is still less than any European supplier, but I hate being held to ransom

I buy specialist coins from all over the world for a good few years and I've been hammered a couple of times. Its a horrible feeling when you get stung like this but t seems that the carriers are getting more acute on picking this up, buyer beware I guess but its not the easiest of things to anticipate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users

The above may be helpful.

Incidentally HMRC are becoming much more strict on checking imports from China.

Neil

Whatever the interpretation of the current words ... This ‘Policy paper’ indicates that the system will be changing soon: **LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

[quote] The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less. [/quote]

MichaelG.

It's not just a simple as paying the VAT , the parcel is also inspected , which probably means running through an x ray machine to check on the contents. I've received parcels with tape saying 'opened and checked re-sealed by customs' . So its not just a payment option. The item is physically dropped off , inspected and re -collected , then they have to get the amount payable off the recipient. I guess it all cost money

I use this method of producing circuit boards regularly, and use both DHL and China post. If I use DHL I can get a PCB in my hands 6 days after I send the Gerber files to China. China post varies, but 26days is typical.
I think this is an excellent service and excellent value for money and nothing in the UK gets anywhere near it.

This thread seems to be diverting into importing goods legislation.

My interpretation of Duncan's post was that he too finds this service good and had no problem with paying his dues.

I thought the real question was about whether DHL should impose an originally un-declared admin charge. I think the answer is no - but I expect it is buried in the Ts&Cs!

.

For convenient reference:

**LINK**

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/International-customs-charges-leaflet-Jan-2017.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2020 10:12:10

I don’t know if it is relevant but any post and packing charges for an item supplied within UK are subject to VAT and are detailed on the VAT invoice, should it be any different for items purchased overseas ?

Dave W

This is what all the fuss was about, worth it in the end, so much better than veroboard. To go wit the article in ME about making pcbs in your own workshop we need one of the CNC gurus to come up with a whizzbang that will drill all the holes, a small x-y table which can be set up on the drilling machine (I can power the Z myself)

A Benbox might (just) be up to the job? Cost would buy quite a few bought-in boards, mind.

I am told that they are not much more than a toy (for milling metal) but one model should be up for drilling a lot of fiddly holes.

Just be aware of import duties, VAT and extra delivery/money collection charges, if imported from outside the EU.🙂

On a slightly different note, I have just bought a spindle and vfd from an eBay seller I have used before. This time however, instead of the items being sent from Portsmouth (presumably some sort of bonded warehouse???) they were sent from Prague. Delivered by DHL, but from the EU so no customs duty to pay. But when looking for which one to buy from the many listings I noticed that all the sellers of these spindle/vfds (obviously Chinese) were sending from Prague, whereas a few years ago they were often sent from locations in the U.K. Does this mean that these sellers have moved from the U.K. to mainland Europe in anticipation of the impending unmentionable B word coming into force at the end of the year?

Steve,

You may be right to a certain extent. Here is another possible reason for such companies to move to Prague as I mentioned on another thread a few days ago:

‘About three years ago, HMRC issued a warning to freight forwarders based in Southampton mainly, which were acting as fulfilment centers for mainland Chinese companies. The Chinese companies would collect revenue, fail to pay, and go bust, and start in a new name the next day, operating with the same freight forwarders - warehousing.. HMRC advised freight forwarders that changes in rules were on their way to hold the freight forwarder responsible for revenue which the Chinese company failed to pay. Being aware of what is coming, this kind of fulfilment business moved to certain ports in the EU, where the regulations are more relaxed.’

Ketan at ARC

Just an aside on DHL. I was trying to track a parcel last week and had to phone them to sort it out. They charged me £6.77 for the pleasure. It was their fault it was stuck in a depot somewhere. Should have checked their T&C for charges.

regards

If one reads the policy paper to which Michael G has linked to, and if it is truly implemented, the OMPs like Amazon and eBay will finally and hopefully be forced to collect revenue for HMRC. If the system works, it can only be a good thing, to deal with certain overseas sellers undervalue declaration which they won’t be able to do... hopefully, to get through the postal system. Also, maybe, if the revenue is already collected for small value goods, it could mean that couriers may not need to make a customs entry for the buyer, so, maybe no handling charge?. Not sure if this will happen though. All fun and games to look forward to on the 1st of January depending on how things pan out between now and then.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 13/10/2020 19:05:14

It’s soon time to order bits to arrive in the Christmas-period increased postal flow - less likely to get pulled for customs checks and charges (even though there may be more chance of getting lost in the system).

I ordered a 1mm allen key (in stock), from merseyside, on the 2nd of October. Delivery by second class post (notified of posting on the 5th). Not arrived although the estimated delivery was by 12/13th Oct. I just checked the order just now and the estimated delivery is now 24th Oct!!

If it does not arrive until then, and arrives in chinese packaging, the seller will most certainly get negative feedback.

Lying (pub) landlords I suspect!

For the record [and for what it’s worth] here is the ‘Impact assessment’ which preceded the ‘Policy paper’ that I linked yesterday: **LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-vat-treatment-of-low-value-parcels/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-vat-treatment-of-low-value-parcels

MichaelG.