Evading VAT and Import Duty

Only if you are willing to be charged more than £8 if it is a very high value item.

I'm sure you would not moan about paying £8 on an item of say jewelry that cost £10,000 where it works out as an acceptable average charge

Also it is not just one operative, there is cost of running and developing computer system, card fees, That operative needs housing in a building, etc

Having been stung a couple of times I now won't  buy or sell anything of more than very minor value outside the EU and I don't use eBay's dreadful Global Shipping Program. Don't find I'm losing out much - if at all.

Roger

Edited By Roger Provins 2 on 10/12/2017 10:21:22

Six years, but if they believe you have been deliberately false, 20 years.

N.

I understood that goods sold to the consumer in the UK should be priced including VAT.

30 years ago I purchased some tooling from a German company at an exhibition in the Uk. When they arrived at the UK port I was sent a bill for VAT & shipping. I refused to pay the extra over & above the price quoted at the show on the basis that i had bought it in the UK & VAT should have been added

After a while they capitulated & goods were delivered

The point of this is that could one argue that as one placed an order for goods at a base computer in the UK, VAT should have been added in accordance with the law & is not, therefore, chargeable again. One is not to know if the goods have come from a foreign depot or a base already in the UK. IE Hobby King, a USA model supplier has a warehouse in the UK. How do I know that ,say, Bangood, for point of argument, do not when I press the "buy" button.

The goods are shown in £'s not ,say, $'s when i buy. So my argument is that VAT is not chargeable again

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 10/12/2017 11:11:15

VAT has to be the most expensive way of collecting tax, something only beaurocrats could think up!

Surely no sane person would even think that such a burdensome and inefficient system was a good idea.

Wonder if anyone has actually done research to determine the true hidden cost it introduces that we all bear?

Point of Sale tax obviously far too simple, efficient and cost effective, irrespective of misuse, for governments to come to terms with or understand.

Geoff - Thank goodness I only had PoS to deal with.

With due respect that is totally untrue. VAT is by far the easiest for of tax to collect

As a business VAT is the easiest way. I just add the applicable rate to my invoice & my computer logs it in my accounts. If I want to know where I stand re VAT I can , at any point in the quarter press a couple of keys & know. I used to get a VAT inspection about every 4 years & just present my computerised accounts. I would spend a couple of hours answering questions if I had an awkward inspector.

Each quarter the VAT could be calculated in a few minutes. The longest bit is logging into the HMRC web site

Now that has to be miles easier than messing about with all the other taxes & accountants plus fees that one deals with as an employer.

Cancel all those, pay no other tax. have no VAT on essentials that those on low incomes need- like wide screen TV etc!! & just have VAT- dead easy

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 10/12/2017 11:19:25

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True, Sam ... But [currently] that can only be achieved when the goods are sold from within the EU.

This thread is about imports from outside the EU

Over the next few years, things will no doubt change.

MichaelG.

But the point I am making is that one has bought them in this country. They have been offered for sale in this country. I have not moved out of my lounge. I am a private consumer, not a company

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 10/12/2017 11:57:23

Web hosting services (for example) from companies based outside the EU have been charging VAT (the rate charged being based on the country of the registrant) when providing services to customers within the EU, even if the domain is a .com or .org and not 'country related' for quite some time now In our case it's an American company, where, other than their VAT registration they have absolutely no UK or EU presence.

**LINK**

Hello all,

Interesting post Neil,

Unless things have changed recently several suppliers price goods without VAT, only finding out the real price at the checkout.

I would be interested to know the procedure for importing machinery for personal use, and what taxes /duties and pitfalls there are.

Regards

Anna

If your goods were shipped from Germany VAT that's in the EU and you should not have been liable for import duty or VAT.

Of course whether or not we have to pay duty on imports from Europe in future will depend on what, if any, trade deal we have in place with Europe after the B-word.

Neil

See the link I posted earlier, personal imports are subject to the same rules as commercial ones.

Businesses who mostly deal with VAT registered/trade purchasers don't have to quote vat-inclusive prices but are required to make this clear.

Be glad we don't live in the US where tax rates vary from state to state!

Neil

I agree with Sam (except that a VAt-only regime means that the wealthy are discouraged from spending -  a situation most governments want to avoid), I'm VAT registered (because my other work can involve vat registered subscontractors and I need to be able to reclaim the VAT they charge me). My last return took seconds as I just clicked a button, before I discovered I could do that it took about five minutes to fill in the return.

The basic calculation is very simple, add up the VAT you have charged, subtract the VAT you have paid and give (or receive) the difference to HMRC every three months.

The only complication is that some items have different rates of VAT and smaller suppliers may not be VAT registered. I have a very few transactions each month where I have to amend the VAT status of a transaction when I enter it into my (electronic) books. There are less than ten numbers on the tax return.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 10/12/2017 13:10:30

Thank you Neil.

I will look at that link, I get the distinct feeling though, that the tax man will not tell me all the pitfalls. eg carriers agents etc.

regards Anna

But a PRIVATE consumer is not doing the importing. He is buying the goods IN THIS COUNTRY. The foreign supplier , wherever he is from, is doing the importing on behalf of the private consumer. Therefore, HMRC should be looking to HIM for the VAT because the VAT rules are that prices to a private consumer in the UK should include VAT. The private consumer is not versed in the art of importing goods, nor should he be

What is the difference from buying an imported tv from Dixons & an imported TV straight from Japan via the internet? Dixons handle the importation & sell in the UK. the Japanese co handles the import & delivers to the consumer in the UK

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 10/12/2017 13:35:38

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Sorry, Sam, but I must totally disagree

The goods are offered for sale in the foreign country, and the purchase transaction takes place there.

You [regardless of whether you are a private consumer or a company] are importing something on which VAT cannot have been paid; simply because the seller is not within the VAT system.

MichaelG.

Sam,

Your logic is simple, but difficult to implement.. at present.

The issue and point of this thread is tax evasion, and HMRC rules as they stand at present, at the point of entry into the United Kingdom. You could argue your point till kingdom come, but most of the time, you will fail.

Amazon, eBay, etc.. could easily build into the system the ability to collect revenue on behalf of HMRC for goods destined to be purchased and used by an individual in the U.K.. This has been proposed to them in several consultations, and it is something for which clear response is awaited. I guess it requires co-operation from these giants.

At the end of the day, it requires political will to allow the HMRC to get and implement their powers, correctly. This is coming, be it slowly. Hope it is not too late for many U.K. based companies, who are obeying the law!

If you are based in the U.K., you may wish to watch this Panorama program, which deals with this tax evasion. Who knows, if the politicians and HMRC are too late or not willing to deal with the problem, we could all become addicts of mega corporations.

In the mean time, Neil is doing the correct thing by introducing this post, to discourage members from encouraging tax evasion practice, which is the real point of this post.

Ketan at ARC.

I wonder what experiences others have of dealing with HMRC; as chairman of our local village hall, a number of years ago we commissioned the installation of a disabled toilet in the village hall, this required quite a bit of alterations and installation work. The provision of disabled facilities is VAT exempt, the problem we encountered was not being registered for VAT how did we document the exemption for HMRC. I contacted said authority to enquire how we correctly documented the process, the reaction I got was extremely brusque bordering on outright rude, they would not help by indicating which form was required to be used, I had to seek help elsewhere and eventually was pointed in the right direction by another village hall who had been thro the process already. If everybody encounters the same obstructive attitude I am not surprised that VAT has accrued the bad reputation that is the stuff of jokes.

Dave W

Anna,

This topic is about tax evasion.

Why should the HMRC tell you about pitfalls ?

If you search hard enough on this forum, you will find threads which may answer some of your questions. For example, search for threads which deal with importing Tormach machines. I don't know the keywords which deal with that topic, else I would direct you there. Sorry.

Ketan at ARC.

Dave,

Cant speak for your village hall issue. However, when it comes to tax evasion on importing, there is plenty of guidance provided on the UK.Gov website. It is extremely comprehensive. Some of the links are presented on this thread.

If one gets stuck and fails to get aan adequate telephone response, You can ask for the call consultation reference number, and you can escalate the complaint, until you get to an SEO (Senior Executive Officer), at each stage logging the call reference. If you still fail to get the answer you seek, you can take this up with your local MP, who in turn can take it up with the appropriate department. ARC has done this on numerous occasions. We have obtained resolutions most of the time.

There will still be times when we are less then happy with HMRC response, but that is the way it is, and there are good procedures in place.

We should be grateful that we live in a country where HMRC takes notice, in the best way it can. If you live and work in India and China, the systems are far less accommodating for the majority.

Ketan at ARC.