Feedback Sought - Beginner's Series

This is not going to be popular.

I am an oldie and some four years ago was able to have a workshop again after some thirty years without.

I am lucky that I have the lathe I wanted with a mill, bandsaw, pedestal drill and grinders with a new mill due to arrive in three weeks..

After subscribing for some years I have for some months realised that MEW is not for me.

I grieve for the days when Curly wrote "chuck in 3-jaw, put a round-nose tool crosswise in the rest and face the end".

Even his instructions were interesting reading.

I do not have any interest in CNC or CAD and when I was fifteen and found a copy of ME on the station bookstall when on my way to school I found that everything was easy and following Curly's writing I was able to build an engine.

A few months ago I was interested in an article in MEW and decided that was something I could build until I read "take the chuck off the lathe and put it on your dividing head.........." the rest was far too technical for me.

From the forum I realise that instructions such as Curly's are out of date and that everyone who writes in MEW has a fully equipped workshop and writes for engineers who are likewise.

So it is unlikely that I shall renew my sub when the time comes.

I do not need advice on buying a lathe and as the magazine title is MODEL ENGINEER'S WORKSHOP why articles on motor-bikes and cars?

Though I must admit that even Edgar Westbury seemed to assume that his followers were all mechanically educated.

So I shall go on reading the ME of the thirties with all the interesting articles about simple engines and tooling and knowing that without Curly the miniature locomotive world would be a lot poorer, and so would I.

Richard.

An excellant idea,people often browse magazines and to see an article for beginners might rouse their interest and start them off on this all consuming hobby.Although I have always made things ,my interest was sparked by an article of making a clock by John Wilding and I haven't stopped since .

Frank

Beginners stuff in MEW; a great idea Neil. I am a 63 year old returning to engineering but still very much a beginner. I have seen it written a number of times in this thread (by people who are obviously NOT beginners) that there are other books and sources that a beginner can go to if they want to learn beginner stuff and though this is true I am a beginner looking for beginner articles and I have chosen to subscribe to MEW, a publication I think it reasonable to expect a beginners article to appear in from time to time. As it happens I do purchase books that cover beginner stuff, generally from eBay where the Workshop Practice Series can be had second hand for a third of the price than from most other places. A monthly publication like MEW cant hope to be 'all things to all men' but it could come a little closer to that ideal if it published beginner stuff from time to time so yes Neil, beginners articles please as I know that I can usually learn something from pretty much anything I read.

Hi Richard 2,

I can understand that we will always have some readers for whom MEW isn't a good fit.

Our readership is very wide and includes lots of people whose interest isn't 'model engineering' but who run a workshop for such things as vehicle restoration, metalworking and 'making' in general or even run a small jobbing engineering business.

Our emphasis is on tools and techniques, but I like to cover a broad range of topics without straying into Model Engineer territory. I thought 'flute making' was a bit of a gamble, but I know the author is an excellent writer and the recent short series which is now concluding, has drawn a great deal of positive comment.

We actually only run car/bike articles about once a year, they always get noticed because they stand out. Surely it's no different from ME running everything from clocks to locos? I have to accept that very few people will find every topic of interest in any issue, I just try and get a good spread so most people find most of each issue of interest.

My background is very different from publishing, in work where it was essential to listen to and respond to your 'stakeholders'. I keep a close eye on sales and feedback from readers, and try to understand who they are and what their interests are. This has had a significant impact on how the magazine has developed, and does appear to be reflected in how the magazine is doing.

I think we do have some excellent writers addressing all levels, you may disagree. One problem for beginner's articles is that even just a quarter of a century ago a beginner would be faced with making lots of useful accessories to equip their workshop on a budget. Today, it's possible to equip your workshop with all sorts of stuff and the appeal of making simple tools such as scribers, height gauges, clamps and the like is greatly diminished. The value in such projects may be the learning, but when it costs more to buy a piece of silver steel than a carbide tipped scriber...

Neil

One thought, if authors are reading this (and I know some are), next time you write me something add in a 'text box' or two with a potted description of a useful or tricky technique - like Jason's example above about using a dot punch.

These can sit alongside an article, take up little extra space and can be ignored by the experienced.

Neil

I dunno what you're worried about Richard: you explained what you like and don't like. Nothing wrong with that.

Best wishes,

Dave

I regularly curse the fact that I can't simply turn round and ask one of my engineering forebears why things just went wrong. There are loads of really sound tips and hints in the magazines (ME & MEW) and the forums but if it could, somehow, be gathered together I might not make so many mistakes. In other words, yes to the original question.

For this beginner any item that says chuck it in the 4 jaw, mount on the milling machine would be pointless as many beginners do not posses such expensive luxuries, stick with items that can be made with hand tools with the addition of a powered drill.

This approach would enable beginners to manufacture items that would satisfy their creative urges and give rise for attainable furtherance of their newly begun hobby.

I'd go for it. I don't think it's reasonable for people to expect the magazine to cater only for their particular level of expertise. A small beginners series doesn't seem like a big sacrifice.

... and if you didn't get any backlash to Flute-Making, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Little snippets like this were often found within the text of larger build series in the past which is where I learnt a lot of what I know not having an engineering background. It did depend on the author with some having a more "useful" writing style than others.

I think it is well known that I am not into locos but early on did read ones because a lot of what was described was equally applicable to any aspect of the hobby. What someone is writing about marking out loco frames can just as easily apply to traction engine hornplates, scratch built stationary engine parts, hole positions on an upgrade part for a motorbike etc.

The hardest part of writing any article aimed at the beginner is where do you pitch it. Do you assume they don't know one end of a scriber from another or the difference between mild steel or silver steel. Or do you assume they already have a lathe and then if so do you just say face off the part or do you have to tell them how to grind and mount a suitable cutting tool.

I don't think there is any one level that you can aim at and each author will have to aim it where they think.

Neil maybe you could ask any author who submits a beginners article if they would be willing to start a thread on it and then put the link in teh mag, that way any beginner with a question on that specific item will not feel so intimidated about asking questions. Thread could also include a few more extra photos that would otherwise have padded out teh article, maybe a video of the item in action, 3d images as that may be easier for a beginner to understand if they can't read drawings well.

J

As a beginner, I would very much like to see a series aimed at 'me' in MEW. I can find all sorts of tips and useful things to make on the internet, but what I don't see is a clear explanation of the different types of milling cutters - 2 flute, 3 flute, 4 flute, piloted, dove tail etc. and their ideal use and how to use them. Its basics like that I need.

I have worked in industry for 35 years, completed an electro-mechanical apprenticeship, overhauling diesel-electric loco's (including some electric and steam loco's), then worked for a manufacturer of industrial diesel engines and tractors.

But apart from some machining basics during my apprenticeship, I have never touched a milling machine until now. So a series on basics is very welcome - I'm sure that a lot of beginners don't know even how to file a cube square.

If I can suggest some titles:

Files - types/shape, use, how to file square, file buttons etc.. (surprising how few 'engineers' can file square)

lathe tools - HSS, inserts different shapes what they are for, cutting different materials, speeds, tool grinding.

milling tools - cutters, slitting saws, face cutters, etc..

Thread cutting - angles, tools, taps, dies, different holders, machine cutting etc..

Measuring - instruments, how to read an imperial micrometer, slip blocks, height gauges, surface tables etc..

Drills - different materials, point angles, sharping, HSS or not, deep drilling, very small drills, speeds etc.

I'm sure a lot of this can be found in MEW past issues, but it is usually deep within the text of projects and quite often off the particular articles main subject matter.

You get the idea.

Edited By Malcolm Judd on 09/07/2017 10:02:09

I think the potential problem with beginners articles is that they only reach those beginners who buy the magazine at the right time. Once published and become a back number, either they need to subscribe online to get the digital archive or buy back issues. Given that already, and to an increasing extent, everyone uses the web, especially the younger people that we really need to get into the hobby (and profession!), I'd suggest that an archive of pdf's of beginner articles be made available FOR FREE on this website so people who get a passing interest, maybe from seeing a paper copy of the mag or coming across this site when surfing or searching, can get some real value without paying that will help motivate them to either buy the mag or subscribe.

I very much like John's idea of having this 'beginners' articles collected on this web site (or a related one - I'm not sure the technology of this site lends itself to that sort of content).

One thing which would make this valuable is good indexing / search rather than a 'random' list of articles, being able to find 'centre-punch' or finish would make it much easier to get value from it.

I've two views on 'free'. On the one hand I think you could reasonably have it inside the paywall for ME/MEW customers only - adding value. If you made it free you would have a great Googlable search resource which would draw new prospective subscribers to the real magazine.

To add to Malcom's list, even something as 'simple' as accurate sawing is actually quite hard to do (well for me, though I'm getting better). And my favourite of all which is scraping...

Iain

Another thing which would be helpful would be a guide to terminology - ideally a visual guide.

This is triggered by the excellent video on trepanning on a post a few minutes ago. I made a fixed steady as one of my first proper jobs a year or two ago. I had to take out 3 inches of the middle a 4 inch bar. I wanted to do this with (what I now know is) a trepanning tool but had no idea how to search for the process. I ended up boring out from the middle. Worked, but a lot of waste steel.

I now know of several ways of doing this, but couldn't even ask the question then.

(Mandrels, Arbours, Indexable and other religious vocabulary has take a long time to more or less get my head round!)

Iain

Not everybody likes every article in any magazine and will usually just skip it and ignore it.

I am sure like me there are many out there who aren't interested in pen making, steam loco's, or several other regular topics,

Yet I don't complain I simply skip those articles and move onto something I am interested in

Surely this isn't too difficult to do, and a mere two pages in any magazine won't cause that much of a problem to anybody.

A site or magazine that doesn't cover the whole spectrum will soon die as all the oldies will also do eventually and where would that leave the magazine

those up coming with similar interest with little or no experience won't subscribe to one with all the articles way over their heads

Magazine's and web sites need to cater for the many not the few to survive !!

Tony

PS +1 for the terminology guide and other suggestions posed by the previous poster Iain

Edited By Antony Powell on 09/07/2017 12:14:09

Edited By Antony Powell on 09/07/2017 12:14:41

Hi, I think a lot of people forget that they had to learn how to use tools and techniques, just the same as some car drivers seem to forget they were learners themselves before they got their full licence. I've no objection to the beginner articles, and who knows, I may even find an easier way of doing something that I've done all my life, every day is a school day as a late cousin of mine used to say. In contrast, it is a shame that many schools don't seem to teach metal or woodwork like they used too, where the use of dot and centre punches ect, was explained. I feel I was lucky to have a farther who taught me how to use basic tools and a lathe and having a very good metalwork teacher at school, along with what I believe to be a basic instinct of mechanical things. From starting work after school I found it quite easy to grasp the work I went into and after just a few years could show some of the old timers some much more efficient and labour saving techniques of doing the same job that they had been doing for years.

Regards Nick.

Some advice to anyone thinking of contributing. Try the technique you are suggesting using the wrong hand. This will help you to realise the difficulties faced by anyone who has never tried to file anything flat, or hit a centre-punch square on the head.

And when you have a collection of articles, Neil, why not put them on the website so that the new forum members can be referred to them - no need for an extra subscription, just for this, surely?

Cheers, Tim