Were castings cheap back then?

That's only half the story. Equally to blame were intransigent unions, keen to maintain pay differentials and demarcation; and hence often against investment in new equipment.

Andrew

Foreign managers/companies came here and now build hundreds of thousands of decent cars in the UK each year, and with the same workforce

British Managers are useless, every car company in existence in the 1960s has disappeared, British managers even managed to trash the Black cab company, a totally unique and iconic vehicle

Even Fiat and Alfa Romeo have survived to today, unlike our own car companies, and we all know how "good" they were back in the 70s 80s

British Managers, after trashing British Industry, are now in high flying jobs in the Health, Education and Public services sector... and we all know how fabulously well those industries are doing...

This is Darwinism at work, and Britain is doomed unless we change

No where near true, look at most of the foreign companies and they still have home grown managers but from a different breed. Andrew also hit the nail on the head in that they had to deal with unions on unions terms. The modern companies have a far different setup.

[edit] CNC factory up the road from me, making parts for Boeing and Airbus, 40 odd workers, all the latest tech machines, flat out with work, in fact was working all day Sunday and Sunday night when I went past. No union. A few years ago this would never have been tolerated so that's one headache reduced for all concerned.

True same workforce to an extent although the modern worker isn't entrenched in unions as much and the main thing is the repetitive boring jobs have gone to be replaced by robots.

Things like the black cab are just natural progression, like the old blue Invacar and the Dennis fire engines.

Why make a specialised high cost basically hand made vehicle in this age when you can get a base model off the production line and modify it. The cost saving is enormous and we all know how purchases are based around cost. Probably no more so than the average model engineer.

Then base it on quantity, how many new black cabs and fire engines would be bought today in say a year, not that many but the sales would have to support a factory and work force. In the mean while Scania probably pull a small percentage of standard trucks off the line to be converted into fire engines for the whole of the EU market, not just the UK

Edited By John Stevenson on 20/04/2015 11:48:05

One British company which has impressed me is Rolls Royce Aero Engines

Luckily they went bust in the 1970s and not when Maggie was in charge or they would have been toast

I deleted the last bit of my previous post which read : I wait for those who will say "It was the unions and strikes etc which ruined the Car and Bike industries along with everything else." That is blatantly untrue.

Well Andrew I have news for you, it was bad management who felt they knew better than the men who were building the stuff. It was an American who believed in team work from top to bottom of any establishment which will bring success. The Japanese took this on board but Western Management didn't not until they had seen the quality and innovation which the Japanese were producing. By then of course it was too late.

As for miners and bin men all they were asking was for recognition of bad and dangerous conditions and a wage to suit. IMHO

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 20/04/2015 12:08:00

The British management classes are afflicted with an epidemic of hubris

The Trams in Edinburgh was a great example of this triumph of stupidity over common sense, the entire city could have had free buses for 50 years with that cash

You guys have a cracking waste of money coming up in the form of HS2, 100billion is going doon the pan on a transport system only the rich can afford to use regularly

Meanwhile the money for local/regional bus services gets cut back to the bone

Edited By Ady1 on 20/04/2015 12:09:06

Andy 1

Even Fiat and Alfa Romeo have survived to today, unlike our own car companies, and we all know how "good" they were back in the 70s 80s

They were terrible rot-boxes and gained deserver reputation as such. Fiat was a nationalised company for many years and probably still is.

After being privatised their share price remained very low for years since most of the money they made was re-invested in new products and not passed on to the share holders. The last eight or so years has been pay back time and those who had invested for the long term saw their shares increase in value by up to about eight times. I bet few in the City, well known for short-termism, saw that gain.

JA

John don't just drive by go and enquire, see if they will give you the tour don't just assume. The truth is that again the place is fully sorted there won't be 40 jobs it will be 4.

Perhaps in the next one hundred years there wont be any jobs however that's is then known as the horns of a dilemma because to purchase the products being made we need money and jobs!??

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 20/04/2015 12:23:49

The curse of British industry was that the management blamed it all on the workers and the workers blamed the bosses and no-one accepted that to succeed they all had to be on the same side.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 20/04/2015 12:20:48

Well put Neil Andy they weren't against the new machines but they were against starving out on the street.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 20/04/2015 12:28:39

Jesse,

I do go in quite regularly, they do have about 40 workers but also about 60 machines. Some of the workers are not hands on , programmers, stores etc. They have one guy does nothing but work two power saws all day.

Where they do score is as Neil says, they are all on the same side.

Any of you aware of PFI ? The Private Finance Initiative?

PFI is like buying your house with a credit card and no sane person would ever do it!

It's a form of government off-balance sheet financing which is going to cripple the taxpayer and our public services

I used to think our ruling classes were sociopaths but now reckon they suffer from an extreme form of hubris

I'll bet the guy on the saws just loves putting his life into feeding those power saws, indeed I'll bet he can't wait to get in early and get started.

Andy: Hubris? or do you mean BS. Which over the years I have come to believe they are all full of.

Don't forget guys and dolls we are all in it together, it's only the depth which varies.

Hey Andy my memories of reading the Iliad failed me there for a while. You may well be right about hubris and it's connection with British management.

I fell out with senior managers in the first year of my apprenticeship. Once a week, the new lads were given a two hour lecture by a head of a department. Subjects such as , tool room, progress, stores etc. Well one day it was the turn of the managing director, who said within his opening gambit some thing on the lines of "The most important thing for me is to have fun doing my job". The fact I can remember him and his words show they had quite an affect on me, 50 years later I can still bring the whole thing to mind.

At my last firm, the CEO (an American), stood up and basically lied to the whole staff of our division. He said that we were forward funded for three years. So six months later the firm had to go for a chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Apparently the CEOs of the FTSE 100 companies are more psychotic then the average inmate of Broadmoor.

Frank.

How many people have cast their own parts?

I have cast aluminium in the past, also done lead for fishing weights both with relatively low melting points and the material is cheap even free. Gunmetal and cast iron will need a lot more heat.

Bob

When the car industry was brought to a standstil in the sixties/seventies by the Unions, some Asian blokes came over and recruited the Management to go over and they started a little company called Hyundi.

graham.

I cannot remember any times when castings were cheaper than others in relation to my earnings, but then again I was always underpaid (IMHO).

I have had go with Pewter that was fairly successful but it is of course quite a low melting point.

Edited By V8Eng on 20/04/2015 22:58:00

As far as castings go I didn't dream of buying any back a ways, indeed I was busy paying for a mortgage wife and kids. There were lathes available Myford seemingly aimed at the modeller. I bought a worn out Harrison but had I had any sense I would have saved the money and torment for another day.

In any event most prices remain relative to the era as does the buying power of money. It's more or less the same with wages. I assume that with the introduction of cheap Chinese machines the demand for more castings has risen but whether they are any dearer or cheaper is I feel up for debate.

The only casting I did was in school and on one occasion I went home with holes in my socks after a crucible of molten metal was accidentally dropped on the deck. With no time to avoid it I watched amazed at the speed of the hot metal as it scurried off into the far corners of the work shop.