Riveting

Hi

I am currently attempting to make the Railmotor 1 loco. While making the frames I had to do my first riveting. The frames are only 1/8" thick and I had to rivet fairly substantial hornblocks (**LINK** ) to them. The rivets are so close together it is impossible to get a rivet snap behind them so I made a jig and clamped everything together. Nevertheless while hammering the rivets some were pushed slightly out at the back and the frames ended slightly warped due to the hammering. I assume there is a much better approach to this I just wondered what the advice is. I have read about it in the Model Engineering Foundation Course book but it doesn't explain about riveting in such tightly constricted locations.

I think I have recovered the frames and they are now bolted together and seem to be square and don't rock when placed on a level surface so I hope I have got away with it.

Nik

Under similar conditions ,for a different model, I ground the sides of a rivet snap to reach individual rivets. I have also made bent rivet snaps to clear obstructions. Colin

As Colin says you need a modified snap

i think in fairness to Nik ,don young over did the rivets on the hornstays on the RAILMOTOR No. 1 and didnt take into account the difficulties of rivetting same. don always had a habit of over specifying studs, bolts, rivets etc. just see how many studs secure the steamchest on the RAILMOTOR! dont be a slave to the drawings and if you have the confidence and experience dont be afraid to alter things and make things easier to build!

cheers,

julian

Just looked at the linked picture.

I'm surprised he didn't weld them on as well.

Did they rivet the hornblocks in full size? I thought they used fitted bolts with CSK heads. Vale of Rheidol railway locos appear to have fitted bolts. Ibelieve Lynton & Barnstaple rly. also had them. Les Wharnett described his model L & B loco. with them

hi DMB

i dont think it matters with cold riveting in miniature. in fullsize with hot riveting there are various arguments for and against. these have recently been discussed at some length re the restoration of LNER A3 FLYING SCOTSMAN in fullsize.

i should add that getting soft iron rivets seems to be a problem these days. ive got plenty of old stock but i know others have had problems with rivets for such vital components in miniature not being soft iron.

cheers,

julian

Hi Nicholas , it sounds like you supported the horns and plate rather than getting a dolly to fit the rivet with enough clearance support the rivet head and to allow the rivet head to shrink a little and still have clearance between the dolly and the parts? I did the same thing with my Durham wheels and managed to bend the tee ring'!!!

Reject

Every book I read on model engineering has lengthy sections dealing with riveting, so it is not an easy process to master, some people just have the knack to do it and some have not, in my case fitting model engineering in my busy life sometimes feels like a an impossible task. Then what happens is I get a couple of hours to play and try to make a four hour job fit in, result more scrap.

Julian is quite right in saying 'dont be a slave to the drawing' but some of us do not have the vision or skill to know how to make changes and where to make them, so we do tend to stick to them as we beleive them to be 100% correct. How many postings are there on this forum about things that have been made and then do not fit? 

happy hammering

Brian

Edited By Boiler Bri on 24/01/2014 06:59:03

Edited By Boiler Bri on 24/01/2014 07:02:27

Thanks for all the advice. The picture from JasonB is so obvious I can't believe I didn't think to approach it like that. Actually looking forward to the next riveting now.

Hi Nik

Have you considered bolting them on Emkay supplies sell slotless raised heads that look like the real thing i use them all the time instead of rivets even on my 5" 9F

Regards

Stan