Copper bit

A general query regarding an attachment for my gas torch, this is a copper rod that is inclined into the gas flame for heating with enough protusion to safely solder with out scorching anything else.

Now the copper bit is getting too short to work safely, ( I use it to solder heads of nails in Beehive roofs. The nails hold the zinc coated metal onto the roof)

Am I right in thinking I need a pure copper bit, if so where can I get some. It is nominally 3/8" dia.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 21/11/2013 15:10:59

Clive

I am pretty sure a soldering iron bit does not need to be 'pure' copper, the stuff available from Noggin End and the likes will be OK.

Drifting slightly... every trade, industry, hobby etc has accepted ways and method of dealing with their problems, I know nothing of Beehives or beekeeping (but I presume you do) so why what is special about the roofing technique?

'Zinc coated metal' = galvanised steel? and why are the nails soldered?

Ian P

PS I think I have a few inches of 3/8" copper rod. If you dont find any locally let me know whet length you need.

Clive,

Definitely a pure Copper [*] bit in those I have seen; but sorry I can't think where to obtain 3/8" diameter rod ... unless that's the size they use for Electrical Earthing Rods [?]

MichaelG.

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P.S.

Do beware the fumes that might be given off from the Zinc, if you get things too hot.

Edit:  [*]   going by colour, not by chemical analysis

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/11/2013 16:26:11

Hi Clive,

I have one of those soldering attachments, when the copper became too short I replaced it with a brass rod (nearest thing to right in the junk box). The brass has worked fine for me.

Peter.

Clive

Unless someone can come up with a definitive reason I don't see why it should be pure copper.

The bits in electric soldering irons are coated, so copper purity at the soldering end can't be an issue. The copper is just a medium for transmitting the heat to the work so providing there is nothing in it that reacts with the flame I don't see a problem.

I've used soldering irons heated in town gas flames and coal fires without any problems, now if the bits were pure copper I don' t know but I am sure they would have become contaminated with the dirty flames.

Regards

The biggest (no, the most lucrative) market, for pure copper is for a particular section of the Hi Fi world. There is breed enthusiasts who if they are unable to use solid silver wiring (even for mains leads!) will actually settle for pure copper. To improves its audio qualities they often have it cryogenically treated as well

This has no relevance to soldering for which copper is the ideal metal to make the tip of soldering iron from, plain and simply because it a good heat conductor and is easy to 'tin'.

Ian P

of re a

I think there's a misunderstonding here. While I'm sure it doesn't need to be oxygen free tig welding grade, pure in the sense of being unalloyed is most suitable.

Hi, even good copper conducts heat extremely well and that is the main reason copper is used for soldering iron tips. As John has said and I agree that any general purpose soldering tip does not need to be pure copper. The tip is there fundamentally to transfer heat from the source to the work piece.

Regards Nick.

Clive, you could check Clarke machinery outlets for their spot welding bits, they're manufactured from copper rod in a variety of lengths and shapes around the diameter you mention, but whether pure or not I've no idea, they're pricey though!

John.

Hi Ian, I will answer your query about the roofs on the bee hives. A new Beehive is made from western red cedar for various reasons and the life is counted in say 3 decades though I have a couple that are at least 60 years old and still going strong. Now the roof is a square of Galvanised metal and it is folded to precisely fit over the wooden roof of the hive. As it is exposed to the weather for all this time I have made a habit of soldering the folded corners and soldering over the heads of the tacks used to keep the metal in place. This stops any penetration of water into the roof as bees do not like dampness or moisture in the hive. There is a ventilation aperture built into the roof.

When soldering the gas flame can get near the wood and scorch it so that why I need a longer replacement as over the years it has slowly burnt away from using corrosive fluxes. When making up hives I use 'Hidden' nailing as I have found that if nails are left exposed to Sun, rain and temperature change, they tend to work loose and look unsightly. I also use the gas torch for sterilizing the insides of hives as residues of wax and propolis can harbour disease and wax moth eggs or pupea.

I make up hives for sale as most beekeepers are not 'Handy' and sometimes make a mess of the assembly by putting the ' Bee space ' at the top of the box instead of the bottom. Basically lack of knowledge of what they are doing, they never read any books and just jump straight in.

Thank you for all the answers and I think I will look for a bit of copper rod, or whatever I can find and turn it down to size.

Please feel free to ask about bee things as I am happy to answer.

Clive

Pure copper will dissolve fairly quickly in the solder, which is why iron plating is used for soldering irons. Once the iron wears through, the copper soon dissolves out. A simple copper rod may be fine for a few hives' worth! You also need to be able to wet the tip with your solder, which is why something like aluminium wouldn't work. That narrows down the list of suitable materials...

Clive

I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel but, If the metal roof is precise fit over the underlying woodwork why does it need to be penetrated by nails that then have to be soldered over? Why not just leave tabs on the lower edge of the metalwork and fold them under the eaves to stop it blowing off. I can see the sense in soldering joints etc to create the finished shape but making holes so you can fill them seems counter intuitive.

Are Beekeepers traditionalists that insist on this form of roofing construction or is is the method that you have evolved and found to be durable? Actually that's not a good business plan in these 'discard and buy new' times!

Ian P

One of the difficult metals to solder (with tin/lead electrical type) especially using non activated flux, is iron!

How did anyone decide that the best metal to coat soldering iron tips with is iron. OK its probably not iron in the sense of cast iron but it is still ferrous?

Just curious (and I've been soldering electronics stuff for six decades)

Ian P

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Ian,

An interesting question ... answered herein

MichaelG.

Hello Ian, The galvanised metal does not reach down to the bottom of the lid/roof so has to be fixed by nailing. Also by handling the metal gets banged and gets a bit damaged as its dumped upside down on the ground as its also used as a support for the boxes as they are removed (Reverse stacking) Over many seasons of use they sometimes look as if they have been run over. The soldering helps keep the shape and integrity of the metal.

Clive

I made several new copper bits for my Antex X25 electric soldering iron in 3/8ths copper rod obtained from one of ME's advertisers. As I habitually use Chronos, it was probably them. You can stop the bit eroding away by using 'Savbit' solder, which contains copper, if you can still get it.

Regards

Geoff

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Peter,

It's presumably too late to worry now ... but using Brass would probably risk the health problems associated with Zinc evaporation.

MichaelG.

I think I have stirred up the Zinc fumes with my query, i'm going back to the bees!

I used a corrosive flux and a bit splashed on the back of my hand and the scar is still there.

Clive

Michael

That is an interesting document, even as a long term Metcal user I learnt a few new facts, thanks.

There is reference in the text to further technical documents from the same company. I have tried in vain to find them on the manufacturers site, but also I cannot even navigate to your linked PDF if I start at Newark's home page. How did you find it?

I know of all the usual metals that are electroplated (Gold, Chrome, Nickel etc) but have always assumed that 'iron' was not amenable to the plating process and in relation to soldering tips was just a euphemism for 'Coated' I wonder how it is done.

Ian P

Clive- to save putting holes in the roof, and to eliminate soldering, why not put a large brick on the covering ? That's what most seem to use. I have an electric iron with a copper tip, this has been filed clean over many years and is now worn out, but is at least 40 yrs old, so ok for DIY.