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BERTO	05/11/2011 08:08:36
46 forum posts	Hi . Thanks to Springbok my chineese mill is now safely mounted on its stand and levelled up. I have some thoughts and obsevations about the chineese gear that may be of interest. After fitting DRO'S to all 3 axises i decided to have a play with them and to compare the original dials to them . X & Y both showed .002" variation per turn of the handle {.0984"} - not too bad but compound this over 2 or 3 inches or more and you are way off the mark ! Then i turned my attention to the Z axis and this was where things got interesting ! I wound on 1/4 turn of down feed on the Quill and zeroed the DRO and the machine dial . I wound on 1 full turn = 2.5mm or .0984 thou . .0975 was the reading on the DRO so i decided to zero it and wind on another full turn this time i got .104 thou so i set up a dial indicator to see what exactly was going on . The DRO was correct to within .005" but why the sudden jump from .0975 to .104 thou ? The only thing i can think of is the rack gear on the quill is out of whack as each consecutive turn yielded a different reading but the DRO and Dial gauge coincided with each other every time . I don't know why the Chineese manufacturers don't just fit DRO'S in the factory and save the hassle of dials ! I also decided to look at a bigger lathe but one thing that realy annoys me is the lack of cross slide dovetails on Chineese gear . Most of these lathes don't even have enough thickness on the cross slide to machine dovetails in them and considering the flimsyness of these machines a rear toolpost for parting off is a must ! One machine had the cross slide stepped down behind the toolpost so they could up-spec the swing over the saddle ! I would rather lose the swing to keep the dovetails !
JasonB	05/11/2011 09:12:27
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	What size lathe were you looking at? My Chineese one has Tee slotted (not dovetails) cross slide and is plenty rigid enough to not need a rear toolpost for parting off. There are also lots to choose from with slotted cross slides. J PS I'd take a look at your DRO installation if its only good to 0.005" even the chineese scale type should be better than that.
BERTO	05/11/2011 09:59:13
46 forum posts	Sorry that was .0005" for the DRO ! I was after something approx 600mm between centres with a 300mm+ swing over the bed . Here in Australia we may not have the range of equipement available in the UK or USA but as far as i'm concerned ALL lathes should have tee slots on the cross slide . Regards .. Ian
ady	05/11/2011 10:07:47
612 forum posts 50 photos	There are also lots to choose from with slotted cross slides ------- Not at the first time buyer hobby lathe level there aren't. And It's one of those things which is essential for a general purpose hobby lathe. Most "lathe pictures" in adverts are set up to make sure you can't see this problem until its too late either 200 kilos of lathe has to land on your doorstep before a newbie would even notice It's something they need to sort, even if they make it an optional extra. ...and it must be an optional extra which can be supplied, not one of those optional extras with out of stock permanently pinned against it. -------------- edit I reckon that current units can be made smaller and lighter when there's no slotted cross slide. If you use the current unit setup then the quoted swing decreases when a t-slot cross slide is fitted, from 3.5inches to 3.1 inches kinda thing. It's that...or redesign a heavier beefed up machine and cut a big chunk out of your margins. Edited By ady on 05/11/2011 10:15:31
JasonB	05/11/2011 10:42:47
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Well maybe not in the mii lathe range which is why I asked what size first, though the Chester Cobra is, the 9x 18/20 lathes are slotted, etc The problem with the larger capacity lathe you are looking for is that you are getting out of the hobby range and they start to do away with the tee slotted slides as its assumed by that time that you will have a mill. Does not help if you want to do boring between centres etc. Your best bet would be to have a sub table that can be clamped to the sides of the cross slide rather than cutting slots into the table but you do loose some swing. If you are only wanting it for parting off then a lateh that size like a Chester Crusader or warco 1224 will be rigid enough.
Brian Dickinson	05/11/2011 11:09:34
62 forum posts 13 photos	I have just bought a Nu tool from a member of our society who has had it for about 10 years and never used it. It's OK i suppose for home use. I have not used it in anger yet and hope to do so soon. I think its got to be better than milling in the lathe which i always find tricky to set up. Luckily i will be able to sort the play in the lead screw and adding a drive will improve it no end. Only time will tell
David Haynes	05/11/2011 16:59:26
168 forum posts 26 photos	Sorry if you already stated it elsewhere, but what model of Chinese mill do you have? The Sieg X1/2/3 seem to have a good press, as do Chester and Warco models. The Sieg Super X2 Plus that Arc sell is belt driven (no plastic gear train to fail) with high torque brushless motor and longer table. I don't know what the micrometer accuracy is on any of these models. Dave
BERTO	05/11/2011 20:55:23
46 forum posts	The Mill i have purchased is equivalent to the Chester Lux and my current lathe is the same as the Chester 920. Don't forget that even though these machines look the same they may have come from different factories and more than likely have different specs . Maybe Chester specifies they supply thier machines with tee slots ? My lathe has 2 slots that run lengthways along the cross slide alowing a rear toolpost etc but none of the other machines with larger capacities from the same supplier do . The machine i was interested in gives an extra 100mm between centres and 60mm over the cross slide . I did consider making tee slot table that could bolt on to the cross slide but this unit has a stepped cross slide and it has been designed to be shorter in length to allow longer travell . They then covered the rear of the cross slide with an ugly sheetmetal cover that is removable. It really is a bit of a Dogs breakfast this unit but on the plus side it comes with a lever type lock for the tailstock , powered crossfeed , geared head and can cut l/h and r/h threads in metric and imperial. I also own an X2 MILL which i have found usefull for small work but i haven't got around to fitting DRO'S or testing the accuracy of the dials etc. Ian Edited By .001 on 05/11/2011 20:59:36
JasonB	05/11/2011 21:02:16
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	I would have though you may be able to pick up one of the 280mm swing vari speed lathes over there, they seem available in most parts of the world, I have the Warco one with power cross feed and the cross slide is a decent size with two good tee slots
BERTO	05/11/2011 21:54:27
46 forum posts	Go to www.machineryhouse.com.au and you will see what i mean . Some of the SEIG stuff is sold here but this retailer is the biggest in australia and has the widest range but nothing like Warco or Chester etc. There is one other supplier in Queensland calle Minitech that specifically caters to the Model engineer but thier range is limited to a few models and the cost of shipping to new south wales ( 500 miles south ) would be prohibitive . I usually buy my tooling from them as they have a better range of gear that suits the model engineer and the owner of the shop knows what he is talking about. I had a look on the Warco website and thier machines seem to be made to a much higher standard than the ones we get here. I suppose the importers have to look at what we will pay for when they decide what to bring in to the country . Ian
Bill Pudney	06/11/2011 02:41:33
622 forum posts 24 photos	For what its worth, at different times I got both my Sieg C3 Mini Lathe and X2 Mini Mill from Minitech. The freight costs of both machines has disappeared in the mists of time, but in neither case did I think "Gordon Bennett". Their support has been good as well. I have been thinking about replacing the C3 with a C4, and if Minitech showed it on their website I would go straight to them, maybe a phone call is in order!! The choice up here in Australia is a bit limited compared to what we see in England and the US. Just yesterday I had to get an MT3 Dead Centre from the local Hare and Forbes agents and it cost $42, at which point I did say "Gordon Bennett" cheers Bill Pudney
BERTO	06/11/2011 15:07:49
46 forum posts	I'm sure Bob will have something similar ! I was going to buy an X5015M Minitech but two things stopped me : !) It being in Queensland and i in New south wales there was no way of inspecting the machine and i will not buy anything i cannot look at ! 2) Freight - these machines are heavy 380kg nett and i was expecting to pay around $200+ for freight . I ended up with an HM-46 MILL which i could look at and pick up myself . There is another supplier on the NSW central coast called TITAN machinery. They sell thier own chineese imports to thier own specs although more expensive than Hare & Forbes or Minitech. Oh and the bright green hammer finish paint has to be seen to be believed and they even paint the inside of thr T nut slots how wonderfull ! Looks like i will stick with my AL50G lathe for now at least untill i can sort out something to fix the AL320G cross slide issue or find a machine that has similar specs here in Australia with what i want ! IAN
JasonB	06/11/2011 15:10:24
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Does look like you are a bit limited for choice, pity as teh 280 has a 150mm x 270mm cross slide table which is a good size for bolting castings to and as the topslide can mount anywhere along it you could get a rear post on even though I've not found the need. J
Rick	14/11/2011 10:50:09
8 forum posts	A few years ago I bought a Seig C6 lathe and X2 mill from General Tools in Adelaide Sth Australia. I fitted a belt drive on the mill and for the lathe I purchased from Little Machine Shop (US), the mill table which fits onto the cross slide. I don't have any gripes about the Seig equipment whatsoever. Like all pieces of equipment, don't make to do something it can't do. Rick
Springbok	14/11/2011 14:26:51
879 forum posts 34 photos	Hi .001 Thank you for kind remarks, could I give everyone advice from bitter experiance NEVER NEVER purchase a lathe with a so called milling atachment with a round turret, or any other machine unless you want to do only very light work. these are similar to the Warco WMT500 and look at the Warco, Chester , Grizzle.com et all sites to see what I mean. If you are doing anything substantial it will whiplash no matter how tight the column is. I could not afford a Myford or similar bit of kit so bought a Chester626 mill have to say though it stands about 6'6" from the ground it is a substantial bit of kit and accurate, had a few minor changes to make but on the whole great. Could not say that for the Warco needed lots of mods and adjustment though stated tested before delivery by our specialist team. HA HA. Anyway food for thought for everyone as we are now lumbered with the oriental machines and only secondhand equipment of any quality but costly is now available Bob
BERTO	15/11/2011 04:45:48
46 forum posts	Thanks Rick i will check out those stores . I agree that the SEIG gear is good for what you pay for it - with the exception of the super X3 as it is more expensive than my HM46 mill and not as big although variable speed and digital Z-axis readout are a bonus ! I now have 2 mills and may modify the X2 to CNC in the future but i will keep it either way as it is better suited to smaller cutters and delicate work . The AL50G lathe has served me well although the spindle bore is annoyingly small ! Next on the list is a tool and cutter of some sort , the one in the latest AME is ripper of a copy ! Springbock , Did you mean round turret like the VMC or round COLUMN ? I know the VMC has a round turret to allow it to tilt and slide is this what you had problems with ? I was not impressed by the round column type of machine as it was a pain to raise/lower the head and even more so to change speeds although it did have 12 speeds against my machines 6. I am thinking of a planetary gearbox to fit between the motor and the gear head to allow under/overdrive of the existing 6 speeds but that"s a long way off ! Regards.. IAN
Springbok	15/11/2011 05:36:57
879 forum posts 34 photos	Hi Ian sorry I meant the horizontal round column I have not used the one attached to the Warco for a number of years now as the mill unit would move on anything substantial I gave up on it and pushed the mill section round out of the way A waste of money. as far as speed is concerned I have put 3 phase variable speed onto both my machines. This certainly makes life much easier and a lot quiter. regards Bob
Terryd	15/11/2011 08:05:38
1946 forum posts 179 photos	Hi bob, I have to say that my Warco 280V has exceeded all of my expectations over the last year. The accuracy of the 3 Jaw has to be seen to be believed. It is solid, has silky smooth movement of cross slides, saddle etc and is capable of large cuts. It cuts parallel cylinders accurately and has proved to be accurate and reliable so far. Have to judge that latter though in the longer tern. Perhaps I am lucky Regards Terry
Springbok	16/11/2011 04:12:07
879 forum posts 34 photos	Hi Terry I was refering to one of the combi machines the Warco lathe itself is fine and has done excellent work. It is the mill attachment I was talking about.. At the time I was building the 7.25g Anna DAG Browns creation and some of the casting were to say the least lumpy. Have now sold the beast as was getting far to heavy to lug around. On saying that even on small components I was makeing no matter how tight I tried to lock the column it would occasionaly drift. To my mind the pillar drill/mill/lathe was a good idea for very light work, giveing a low cost solution without haveing to purchase 2 machines. Cheers Bob.
BERTO	20/11/2011 06:33:30
46 forum posts	Hi , i have finally got around to tramming the head of my new mill -same as the chester lux with dovetail column . It seems that the y axis has a 5 thou variation from front to rear and i was wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem ? I set up the x axis first then checked the y axis second and it seems as the column is tilting foward . I then set up my longest parallel across the table and clockedthe top of it to see if the table was climbing or tilted but it showed no deviation . The only other thing i could think of doing was to set up my longest engineers square on the bed and clock the top of the blade which was now in the vertical plane . Using the spindle feed i ran the indicator up and down the blade of the square and it showed 2 thou deviation - tilting foward . I then did the same using the column adjustment and it showed exactly the same 2 thou tiltng foward . I would deduct from this that the column and spindle are parallel and the column is tilting foward in respect to the y axis of the table . i set up a 2 inch square block of steel in a toolmakers vice surfaced both sides using a 75mm face mill and this also showed .0005'' out of parallel indicating that the column is tilting foward . Any thoughts on this ? I suppose my next mission will be to lift the column from the base and see if the mating surfaces are clean and have no burrs . Or am i creating mountains out of molehills ! IAN

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