Unknown Thread query
Peter Cook 6 | 07/05/2022 18:48:43 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | I have a vintage screw head polisher stamped G Boley, which has a set of 5mm OD small (sub millimetre) collets. I was thinking about making an adapter to use them in my 6mm watchmakers lathe. To do so I would need to make a drawbar. The collets are internally threaded, and the screw polisher has a drawbar for them. However I can't work out what the thread is on the drawbar. The thread OD on the drawbar is 3.32mm ( 0.130" ). As close as I can measure the pitch is exactly the same as 4BA (0.66mm 38.48 tpi). A 38tpi guage shows as slightly too small a pitch, a 4BA screw fits more closely ( I don't use BA normally so don't have a BA thread guage). Thread form looks like the BA form by eye. A 4BA nut threads easily onto the drawbar, but a 4BA bolt will not screw into the collets (its 3.46mm OD). None of my reference books have a thread with these characteristics. 4BA is the closest. It could be a Boley special I suppose. I wondered if anyone had come across anything? If I go ahead I will probably get a 4BA die, and thread a slightly undersize rod with the die closed down tight.
Edit to remove errant smiley) Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 07/05/2022 18:49:48 |
Michael Gilligan | 07/05/2022 19:04:31 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | This is a very useful compilation, Peter https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~bolo/workshop/thread.html MichaelG. . … and I suspect that the thread might be No. 4 THURY Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/05/2022 19:07:55 |
Clive Foster | 07/05/2022 19:19:00 |
3630 forum posts 128 photos | My version of Andy Pughs list gives no 27 Siemens & Halske as being 0.133" / 3.37 mm diameter with a pitch of 38.5 tpi / 0.66 mm. Close. The Siemens & Halske thread was used in telephones around 1900. It has the dubious distinction fo having several thread angles between 50° and 68° depending on size. Found a single table listing here :- https://drill.webstaginghub.com/siemens-halske-thread/ Clive Michaels link is to an earlier version of Andys list than mine. Its been edited and extended over the years buy Andy and other folk. Probably the most comprehensive multi type list available. Edited By Clive Foster on 07/05/2022 19:22:53 |
Mark Rand | 07/05/2022 19:53:43 |
1505 forum posts 56 photos | Number 4 Thury 0.1425" 3.62mm OD 38.7tpi 0.656mm Pitch
Maybe? |
Peter Cook 6 | 07/05/2022 21:49:11 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | Thanks, absent a source of cheap Thury No4 or Siemens & Halske No 27 die, my 4BA on an undersize rod looks like a probable! |
duncan webster | 07/05/2022 22:17:20 |
5307 forum posts 83 photos | No doubt someone with a fascination for working out change gears will be along with a suitable setup, not me, life's too short! However, I'm confused, you say you have a drawbar which fits the collets "A 4BA nut threads easily onto the drawbar", so what do you need to make? |
Michael Gilligan | 07/05/2022 22:19:46 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Duncan May I suggest you read the first paragraph of the opening post ? MichaelG. |
Peter Cook 6 | 12/05/2022 16:28:17 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | Just to report back on a failure. The S&H 27 thread looked the most likely (the OD on Thury No 4 was too big). I tried turning a bit of 4mm rod down to 3.30mm diameter, and threaded it with a 4BA die cranked as small as I could get it. Partial success. Half the collets threaded onto the resulting rod OK, the other half only went on about six threads then stuck. I suspect the problem is I can't close the die far enough to get the minor diameter small enough ( although none of the thread references I can find give a figure). The collets that threaded on are a close sliding fit on a drill shank that measures 2.75mm. The ones that won't will not accept that drill - but will accept one that measures 2.70mm. 4BA nominal minor diameter is 2.8+, so with the die closed I was probably getting a minor diameter of something like 2.75. OK for worn collets not small enough for the less worn ones. So I guess if I want the drawbar it's going to have to be singe point threaded on the lathe!! |
Brian Wood | 12/05/2022 17:36:40 |
2742 forum posts 39 photos | Peter, Before you go that far, it will be tricky anyway, try filing the O/D of the threaded rod you have made with a fine file just to take the sharp tip of the thread. If you still feel you need to cut the thread, do you have gearing tables for your lathe? I can give you set ups for Myford, gearbox and non gearbox, Sieg mini lathes with 16 tpi leadscrew, 1.5 mm leadscrew and 2 mm pitch leadscrew if one of those is helpful to you Regards Brian |
Peter Cook 6 | 12/05/2022 18:19:22 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | Thanks for the offer Brian. I did skim a bit off the tops of the threads (about half way down actually) to check it wasn't the OD. Same result - so It's definitely an issue of getting sufficient thread depth. I have a Taig lathe, which doesn't have a screw cutting leadscrew - I have made a copier based thread cutting add-on, but not used it in anger yet. So I now need a length of 4BA threaded rod ( I may make some with the die I have) and use a 4BA nut as a follower and some workshop time. This project has now slipped down the round tuit list behind a recalcitrant Brocot perpetual calendar which is stopping the associated clock. |
Bazyle | 12/05/2022 19:37:59 |
![]() 6956 forum posts 229 photos | If the die is a good quality one that actually cuts rather than a modern cheap junk one that sort of squashes the material into submission you can use it a a thread chaser by opening it out and interposing some plastic shim under one set of 'teeth' to push the bar over or some rod into the holes to push the rod off-centre. |
Peter Cook 6 | 12/05/2022 20:01:18 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | Thanks Bazyle, I have not come across that technique. The die was cutting reasonably well so I will try that. |
gerry madden | 13/05/2022 14:28:27 |
331 forum posts 156 photos | Michael G - thanks for posting the link to the comprehensive list of threads. I wanted to condense it and then print it but have a small problem. When I copy/paste into a spreadsheet the first column gets converted into a mixture of dates and other nonsense. If I then try to reformat that column to 'general' or something else, the content gets increasingly nonsensical. What am I doing wrong or what should I change to ensure that first column remains intact after pasting ? Gerry |
Clive Foster | 13/05/2022 15:33:53 |
3630 forum posts 128 photos | Gerry PM me your E-Mail and I'll send you an Excel spreadsheet version. Clive |
noel shelley | 13/05/2022 17:01:55 |
2308 forum posts 33 photos | At risk of spoiling a die, using a 1mm cutting disc open up the split a bit so it will go smaller - the worst that can happen is the die splits in 2. Worth a try ? Noel. |
Michael Gilligan | 13/05/2022 17:21:37 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by gerry madden on 13/05/2022 14:28:27:
Michael G - thanks for posting the link […] . Apologies for the delayed response … we have been out all afternoon. Looks like you’re sorted now, thanks to Clive MichaelG. |
Peter Cook 6 | 13/05/2022 18:02:52 |
462 forum posts 113 photos | Posted by noel shelley on 13/05/2022 17:01:55:
At risk of spoiling a die, using a 1mm cutting disc open up the split a bit so it will go smaller - the worst that can happen is the die splits in 2. Worth a try ? Noel. Thanks for the idea, but the limiting factor is not the width of the gap - its the amount of torque I can apply to the 3/32 allen key that closes it up in the tailstock die holder! However you have triggered my brain into thinking about making the basic thread, then swapping to a more basic holder in which I can apply more closing force. I suspect the die will snap before I get the minor diameter small enough, so I will probably try Bazyle's idea first - then move to brute force! |
bernard towers | 13/05/2022 21:40:58 |
1221 forum posts 161 photos | good idea Bazyle a bit like spill reaming only with threads. |
peak4 | 13/05/2022 23:19:52 |
![]() 2207 forum posts 210 photos | Peter, where do you live? Bill |
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