Plasma cutter at lidl

For some time i had been looking out for the plasma cutter at Lidl and the other week they had a few of them in my local store unadvertised mind..

i bought one and I’m impressed with its performance so far

on test cuts it cuts up to 8mm very cleanly and 12 mm a little roughly.

This model has a built in compressor and is reasonably light in weight.

anyway the Lidl weekly flyer says they will be available generally in store from Thursday the 17th feb

Does it run off a 13A supply?

Well it has a 16 amp plug on it as supplied but even on full power (40 amps) its only drawing 10 or so

Here's the link.

It does say "This Class A welding device is not intended for use in residential areas where the power is supplied via a public low-voltage supply system. Both conducted and radiated interference can make it difficult to ensure electromagnetic compatibility in these areas" but I don't really know what that means.

Rob

Links to https://www.lidl.co.uk/p/diy-tools/parkside-plasma-cutter-with-compressor/p49910

The warnings about electrical interference make interesting reading!

It means:

Conducted emissions: The internal electronics might cause current harmonics and poor power factor to be imposed on the mains supply in excess of the limits set for domestic equipment. In practical terms it is unlikely anyone will notice.

Radiated emissions: The plasma will generate RF interference that could be picked up on surrounding radios and TVs to the annoyance of the neighbours. Whether that will be a problem is ill defined. Depends upon how close people are, how the plasma cutter is used and the design of the equipment that could be prone to interference. I've done a fair amount of arc and TIG welding at home with industrial equipment and not had a problem so far. But the houses are fairly well spaced and I mostly operate weekdays when most neighbours are out at work.

Andrew

It means it's illegal to use it in a domestic or light industtrial setting. Looking at the CE declaration in the manual the EC compliance is to IEC 60974-1 This is a industrial / professional tandard that allows higher emissions.
At best it is disenginious of Lidl, it's probably illegal to sell this to the general public in a retail store (I'm a EMC expert not retail law) The only excuse they may have is if it is supplied with an industrial 16A plug fitted. As soon as a customer replaces that with a 13A plug Lidl are off the hook. If it is suppied with a european 16A plug fitted it is illegal to sell in a retail outlet.
It is noticable that the advert does not show the plug, specify what plug is fitted or what the current / power consumption is. Even the manual does not specify the input current / power.

https://www.usermanual.uk/parkside/ppsk-40-a1/manual?p=93

https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/64782

My professional opinon is that it is illegal and possibly unsafe to use this equipment in a residential or domestic environment. Even if you have a 16A outlet or 3 phase supply in your workshop. If it is in a residential area the interference emitted make it illegal.

Robert G8RPI.

Edit: Andrew's reply came in while I was typing. While what he says is true, I hope he will agree that it is still illegal even if  enforcement is non existent.. I also doubt Andrews equipment was bought in a retail outlet. 
Driving at 33 in a 30 mph zone is illegal even if you are not stopped for it.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 13/02/2022 14:56:40

My Arc/TIG welder is by Esab, and was bought from a professional welding supplier. It was supplied with a 13A plug.

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 13/02/2022 15:07:09

I think Robert overstates the practical implications of the issue.

Most likely, as with so much affordable equipment out of China, its never been tested. Assuming halfway sane design its going to be at least close to the regulations and probably inside them for normal use. With EMC its generally the edge cases that catch you out with excessive emission if the basic design is sound.

If it really is well out LiDL are liable under the wider sales of goods act provisions as its not suitable for the purpose its sold for and is misleadingly described. Needs at least a big "for industrial use only, not to be used in a domestic environment" banner on the box to get out of that one. Anything in a supermarket has to be considered consumer goods and any outfit the size of LiDL has to be considered an expert supplier.

Be most interested to see what the version sold in German stores has to say about itself.

I do wonder if there is a suitable "universal" filter that can go on the workshop (or house) incomer to stamp out anything trying to go back upstream to the supplier. VFD driven washing machines et al are becoming more and more common. Not to mention umpteen (cheap!) switch mode power supplies which can be worse. Solar panel inverters probably aren't blameless either.

Clive

The VFD for my lathe is fed from a suppressed double 13A socket, to ensure that, whether or not the VFD has internal suppression, little or nothing hasty can get back up the mains to affect any of our electronic devices, or those of any neighbour on the same phase.

If I bought this plasma cutter, it would be fed from the vacant socket in the same hope.

Howard

Annoying that they've put it out early; I'll be over on Thursday, so was hoping to collect one.

Bill

Unfortunately not enough space... Just changed workshop, but there is a limit for everything. I just could convince my wife that we need an arbor press (also handy for her jewellery making), but as we share the workshop no plasma cutter wil come...

Need to find a modeller near by who has one...

Bill if you want one I’ll get it for you Thursday am or Wednesday night after 7pm they usually have them on display and accept them at the till

Question, can you TIG / MIG Weld with a plasma cutter if the power is turned down?? Assuming you can get round the gas supply issues. I know that you can get plasma welders but not sure of the differences.

Alan.

Hi Clive,

It's nothing to do with the sale of goods act. It is about radio and electrical interference. If the unit has not been tested then it as illegal to sell or use in the UK or EU. You cannot confirm compliance with this type of equipment without testing. Lidl / Parkside claim compliance to a INDUSTRIAL specification. This is why it is illegal to us it in a residential setting.
As I said before enforcement is minimal and the likely intermittent nature of use makes it unlikely to be located.
Still does not mke it right and in particular Lidl should not be marketing them to hobbyist users.

Robert G8RPI.

Hi Howard,

A vain hope unfortunatly. A "suppressed" socket is likely to only have voltage spike suppression not emissions. In any case the length of the mains lead will negate a lot of the effect even if RF filtering is included.
With the plasma cutter no amount of mains filtering will reduce emissions from the torch.

Robert G8RPI.

Many Thanks, I've just sent you a PM with my phone number and a plan.

Bill

My welder does plasma cutting. I don't know if that makes my machine a plasma cutter or a welder?

The plasma process is Direct Current Electrode Negative, just like the majority of TIG work. The air valve is the same for Argon/TIG as compressed Air for plasma cutting. To switch between you just connect the compressor instead of the shielding gas cylinder.

It does have a different positive connection for the clamp when you are doing plasma cutting. The plasma torch is set up for contact start even though the welder has HF start. I think the plasma clamp connection on the front of the machine excludes the HF start coupling coil, but it is a while since I had the lid off.

Edited By Andy Ash on 14/02/2022 00:25:02

I hope Ian doesn't mind be mention this - I have an Eastwood Plasma that was used once to cut a car in half!

If anyone is interested please message me and I'll forward the details...

According to someone on the Mig forum the Parkside stuff is colour coded much like Bosch drills for example.

green is domestic and Parkside black finish is industrial.

The previous version was 30A with UK 13A plug the EU got the 40A with a 16A plug, which may or may not be what we call a blue 3 pin commando plug.