Problems using Clickspring's technique for Blueing steel

Has anyone had success in blueing steel as portrayed in Clicksprings elegant Youtube video? I have tried with a couple of short lengths of 3/16" dia BMS, nicely burnished in the lathe and heated up in in a heap of brass shavings with ( I must admit) brass filings gathered up from under the lathe but the results have been nothing like that shown by Clickspring. Heating has been using a fair sized Sievert burner but results have been dismal. Where am I going wrong?

I've never tried it so this is speculation but i have also been impressed with clicksprings successes. He has made the point that to get a nice blue the screw heads have to be extraordinarily well polished and admits he has had to re-polish, re-do some. Also his filings are in a brass tray so presumably better, more even conductivity than sticking them in an old tobacco tin? As to heat source.. I though one of the aspects of the seivert torches was that the wider flame acted in part as a shield to slow oxidation when soldering???

pgk

A few wild guesses :

• Everything needs to be clinically clean ... but your brass is from under the lathe
• He is bluing clock hands ... you are blueing a rod
• You may be applying too much heat ... the brass shavings are there to even-up the heat distribution
• if you overheat the brass it can produce zinc vapours

MichaelG.

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P.S. __ I have seen excellent results from the use of an electric heating element, and from the use of an electric paint-stripper gun ... it really is all down to cleanliness and the even distribution of heat, to get the right temperature all over the piece. 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/02/2021 20:48:46

He’s blued fasteners as well In his videos Michael.

Some pictures of your results may help others diagnose the problem?

Sorry, Vic ... nothing of mine to show

I just meet-up with some people who are rather good at it

... hence my wild guesses at potential problem areas.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/02/2021 20:55:25

How are you heating?. I use brass turnings/filings in a shallow brass tray propped up on a couple of firebricks with a channel underneath. I apply the flame to the channel (heating from below) in a gentle manner. If you go slow you get a more even heat distribution and you can see the colour developing. There is a delay between applying the heat and the temperature of the part rising so I remove the flame frequently and watch for 10 seconds or so. At the first sign of a colour change I remove the heat and reapply it in short bursts stopping before the part is completely blue and letting the residual heat finish the process. As soon as I judge the colour to be even and dark enough I remove the part to a container of clean oil. It gets easier the more you do. I end up with a dark blue/black colour. I generally aim to have the 'on show side' of the part uppermost but have never really seen any difference between the top and the underside to be honest.

I do degrease before the process, as Michael syas the parts need to be clean.

regards Martin

This might help explain how critical the temperatures are:

From left: 240 °C dark yellow, 270 °C purple, 290 °C dark blue, and 320 °C grey blue

The referenced illustration is on this page: **LINK**

https://watchesbysjx.com/2015/02/explained-how-to-blue-steel-screws-the-traditional-way-with-a-flame-and-lots-of-patience.html

If you want even colour, you need even temperature.

MichaelG.

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One more wild guess before bedtime ... Working with BMS may be a cause of some difficulty. Higher carbon steel would probably help.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/02/2021 22:37:48

Not seen the video but a heavy metal vessel and dry sand was another way of doing this.You need a slow temperature gradient so you can see whats happening. The parts must be polished and scrupulously clean. Do NOT touch them with bare fingers after cleaning. Oil fumes from the swarf may be a problem. Good luck Noel..

Apologies for the delay but thanks for all your replies.. I will give it another try but somehow doubt if my results will ever rival those obtained by Clicksprings.

surface finish and cleanliness is important. Heat gun is good idea if you have one

Hot salts are easiest if you can get hold of the salt.

It's worth mentioning that clock makers usually keep a jar of brass swarf specially for this job and it has to be prepared by burning off any oil or other contaminants before the first bluing. Also, handy to run a magnet over the swarf too to remove any steel swarf that has become included.

When blueing don't actually bury the parts in the swarf just allow them to rest on the top of the swarf and heat from underneath.

Ron Rose of the South Lon. BHI ( a superb artisan) told me his method which is to use a peice of alluminium sheet with punched holes for screw...a loose fit with only the screw heads above the surface.....then heat from underneath keeping tghe flame moving at all times ....when the right 'blue' appears, tip the screws into the oil.

Go onto that Amazing site, put in Cold blueing and see the results.

I bought some 20 years ago from a long gone company at ME exhibition . I used cutlery trays for long pieces and plastic seives to hold the small bits. 400 x 1/16 iron rivets at a time, internal rods and steelwork on 7 1/4 Dart, bits for vintage bikes, planes, antiques, small BA nuts, bolts and washer etc etc.

No heat, no distortion. Mine did what it said on the bottle.

pete

Go onto that Amazing site, put in Cold blueing and see the results.

I bought some 20 years ago from a long gone company at ME exhibition . I used cutlery trays for long pieces and plastic seives to hold the small bits. 400 x 1/16 iron rivets at a time, internal rods and steelwork on 7 1/4 Dart, bits for vintage bikes, planes, antiques, small BA nuts, bolts and washer etc etc.

No heat, no distortion. Mine did what it said on the bottle.

pete

No idea what that site is. Give me a clue.

regards

Amazon

pete

It’s really down to cleanliness and years of practice and even then it can and does go wrong and you have to start over. Also always watch the colours in daylight not in artificial light.

As far as cold Gun blue it’s fine for small parts but it will not give you the same colour as the heat oxide blue. Cold “blue” is nearer t o black.

John