Hi and GMT Question

Hi my name is Mark, I am currently contemplating building a 6"Burrell GMT. I say contemplating as I have yet to build the workshop that it will be assembled in and then I need to convert my garage into a kitchen as a trade off to keep the peace.

I have just purchased a set of plans from Edward at Little Samson and was very impressed with the detail.

I have a question which I would imagine someone on here would be able to answer.

As these models are based on actual engines are there any major differences between the plans from one casting supplier to another. In other words would the plans I have from LSM be any different from those supplied by another supplier?

Just a curiosity I have.

Thanks

Mark

There will be detail differences as the full sized engines had slight variations and the plans may be based on different engines.

You will also find that construction methods can vary between one design to another, eg fabricated parts from one where as the other may supply a casting or cored passage ways in castings from one design and a liner and machined passages from another.

Edwards design is very good and a number have been made from his drawings and castings including Showmans and convertible versions. If you have not made a traction engine before I would suggest tracking down a copy of his now out of print book " Model Traction Engine Design & Construction" which shows may construction methods particular to traction engines, they fetch a premium now.

Also register for Traction Talk Forum where there are build threads of several engines, Julia Olds' one is very detailed. It can take a while to be approved so get your name down ASAP.

J

Having seen Edwards Burrell in the flesh you are going to need some fairly large machinery to complete it.

Regards

Nice one Mark don't forget to show us piccies of the workshop build, it should be quite a workshop if you are building a 6 inch scale engine!

Welcome to the forum, Mark,

Please keep us updated as you progress.

Neil

I have signed up for Traction Talk, it says that I'm a member and I've clicked on the authentication link in my email. However although it says I'm ;logged in as a member it wont let me view any threads, it says I don't have authorisation to view the posts and that I am in a moderation queue. I've emailed the admin but not had a response yet.

I chose the Burrell GMT as although it is a 6" scale it is still only 7' long and 4' high. My workshop will be 6.5m long and 5.5m wide so should be big enough to take al the crud that's in my existing double garage including my two motorbikes.

As far as machinery is concerned, having looked at the plans, I need a lathe that has at least a 9" swing and a 16" centre gap, unless I've missed something. The largest item the mill needs to handle is the cylinder block casting. So I have 3 options in this respect:

a) buy a second hand mill that is large enough to handle the cylinder block

b) take up an evening class for machining and use their equipment for the larger stuff

c) get someone else to do the machining on the cylinder block.

Picture of the start of the workshop. nothing very exciting really.

Edited By Mark O'Callaghan on 06/06/2019 12:13:41

Seems a bit small to me. I'm building a couple of 4" Burrell SCCs. The largest diameters to be turned are the flywheel and final drive gears. My flywheel is a bit over 16" diameter:

As well as the diameter that can be turned in the gap an important consideration is the length available in the gap once a faceplate is fitted to the spindle. The longest items to be turned are likely to be the front and rear axles, about 30" for my engines.

The main issue for the cylinder block will be the bores and machining the saddle. I have a Bridgeport, but the quill travel isn't quite enough to bore the cylinders for a 4" scale engine. I plan to use the horizontal mill as a poor mans horizontal borer. The horizontal mill will also cope with the flycutting:

The main consideration for a milling machine will be cutting the gears. All my spur gears have been cut on the horizontal mill, although the final drive gears were a squeeze;

Total cost of the mill and rotary table above was £500 - bargain.

For reference my lathe will swing 13", and 19" in the gap, with 40" between centres.

Andrew

I think Julia has a Bridgeport and M300 much the same as you Andrew. Would need to look back through her build to see what she farmed out. same goes for Andy Atwell with his convertable.

I seem to remember Edward saying it has the same boiler as a 4" Foster, though the finished engine is shorter than the foster by about 4" overall.

Edited By JasonB on 06/06/2019 16:27:47

According to the LS website the finished flywheel diameter is 18" and the overall engine width is 35", so one might just get away with a M300. Not sure about the final drive gears. I'd expect a Bridgeport to cope with most of a 6" engine, but a horizontal does have advantages in terms of rigidity and plain in yer face grunt.

Andrew

Correction, Julia has a round head Student with Gap.

Jason, thank you for your comments, I may have confused my terminology on the swing front as I used the radius of the piece being turned not the diameter, so using the diameter as the dimension I would require an 18" swing. one point you did raise which I hadn't taken into consideration was the axles, so thanks for pointing that out.

I will need to do some further research. I had considered an M300 but have not made any final decision as I still have to build the workshop. I still can't access the threads or posts on TT so as much as I would like to have a look at the engine Julia built and the equipment used, unfortunately I'm not able to.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I am building a 6" Ruston Proctor SD, just a bit smaller than the Burrell. The rear wheels are 24" and flywheel 15" dia. I only have a small workshop with no room for a big lathe or mill and most of the turning work has been done on a 9" Southbend and an SX3/RF-45 mill. For the few bigger items I did elsewhere. Join a club and you will probably find members who have bigger equipment and can help.

The original Ruston SD engine does not have a mechanical water pump and I am fitting one from the Burrell and bought it from Edward who I found to be very helpful. The castings were excellent and the drawings well made. He even provided a copy in CAD format.

Good luck with your build, Paul.

Hi everybody,

just wanted to mention that Edward did retire from hosting the 6" burrell models and Adrian Nutting took over.

Adrian just released his new website and also offers machining of all castings apart from all the glorious support similar to what Edward did :D

see:

**LINK**

best

christoph

I can't help wondering, is this the sort of project that leaps forward in the spring, but falls behind in the autumn?

Neil

No traction engine builders are made of sterner stuff than the Loco boys, the cold does not stop them spending the winter in the workshop progressing their engine builds.

Not wasted on me Neil. even if it was UTC iso GMT !

Looking at the current 6" GMT thread on Traction Talk he states his flywheel is 25 1/2" finished size.

The build started in 2013.

Edited By Dave Halford on 23/12/2020 14:24:14

Dave are you looking at the right engine

The 6" GMT has an 18" flywheel as previously mentioned. Quote from Julia's thread would conform that "For a gentle start I decided to start with the flywheel. At 18" it is on the limit of the Students capacity"

Jason,

6" Devonshire Build from Little Samson Models, page 13, he talks about TE and RL version differences, uses a Mascot. Unless he's switched engine scale mid thread.

The Devonshire is a different engine to the Gold Medal Tractor. (GMT) .At about 8ton the Devonhsire is quite a bit larger than the  GMT at just under 5ton empty, there is about 600kg difference in the weight of the two models.

Edited By JasonB on 23/12/2020 17:39:21