Myford ML2 re-commissioning

Myford ML2 re-commissioning.

So as I’ve said in my “introduce yourself” post, I’ve recently purchased new old lathe. While advertised on ebay as an ML4 it appears to be a late ML2 (or ML1 with upgrades). Seemed to be reasonable condition and right price, £200, but you don’t know until you see it in the metal. From the photos in the listing it had a nice round end cabinet stand and tumbler reverse. I’m an Electronics / aviation engineer and have used lathes etc before. I had access to a well-equipped prototype machine shop at my previous employment and have been missing it for small home jobs. The big decision was a new “Chinese” machine or an old British one. So that’s decided then. A quick look at the sellers when picking it up showed one significant fault – the fibre headstock V pulley is badly split and warped. Getting the lathe home and having a closer look revealed the following:
Headstock pulley is unusable
Spindle bearings have been greased
Cross-slide feed has ½ turn backlash
Chuck won’t unscrew with normal technique.
Spindle has a tight spot
The cross-slide backlash is in the endplate an screw. Should just be an adjustment but the handle, nut and dial have been soft soldered together so further investigation required.
Still thinking about how best to lock the spindle to get the chuck off. I know enough not to use the back gear. Given the state of the pulley I’m thinking an expanding mandrel and L or T handle in the back of the spindle would be best, I might take the chuck off the back plate and try gentle heat (hot air gun) on the back plate first. Spindle has to come out to clean out the grease and replace the pulley.
The good news is the tight spot on the spindle disappeared when I released the step pulley. Additionally it has a 1” diameter spindle and if the faceplate that came with it is correct it has the 12TPI 11/8 nose so can be adapted for later ML7/ML10 chucks.

I’m calling this a re-commissioning as it’s the intention to get a working lathe, not a restoration or significant modification. One thing I am considering is replacing the old induction motor and layshaft with a modern motor and drive. More on that later.

Robert.

Good luck Robert, keep us updated!

Neil

Robert, I'v just been through a similar thing with a Box-Ford A lathe that was given to our newly started Menzshed, the 4 jaw chuck almost seemed that it was welded to the spindle. I fed it with penetrating oil over a couple of weeks, gripped a 2ft bar across the Back plate,having removed the chuck, warmed the back plate with the gas torch to a little past touchable temperature, got someone to hold the belt tight on the pulleys, and with a good sized hammer, gave the bar a good whack(well a number of good whacks), that worked. There was some metal chips in the thread, so these were removed, now the chuck fits well. Clean the thread every time the chuck is fitted, and oil it.

Ian S C

Nice to see one part of the world knows how to spell

| Menzshed

Or perhaps not...?

Neil

I came across an interesting tip yesterday, with regard to stopping aluminium threads galling on things like photographic equipment.

Smear a little Kiwi shoe polish into the thread, then rub it off again. The un-noticeable residue is enough to do the job. Nose grease was suggested as an alternative which makes me think lanolin or similar is the 'active ingredient'.

Neil

I have used nose grease for all sorts of jobs like this, freeing off sticky cupboard ball catches are another almost miraculous cure and the beauty of it is that you always have it with you!

Brian

Nose grease? Dare I ask?

.

Exactly what it says ... the oily secretion that [for example] makes your spectacles slip down at inconvenient times.

MichaelG.

.

Wikipedia gives more detail than you might want:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_sebum

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/09/2018 21:19:31

It also brings up a shine on a pipe bowl, but perhaps that is now taking things too far...!

Brian

"Menzshed" New Zealand is the official name for what is also known as "Menshed". I only just found out the correct spelling for Box - Ford, I used to think it was Boxford as in Myford.

Ian S C

.

MeNZshed ... Clearly cleverer that Neil assumed.

Well this went off-topic fast!

I think I'll stick to my favourite Rocol anti-fretting compound (Molybdenum based) on the screws...

Looks like the best way to lock the ML2's spindle without causing damage while unscrewing the chuck/baseplate is to put a expanding mandrel up the back gear end. If I had a working lathe it would be easy to make one, but I have a plan. More later.

Robert.

Once you have the chuck off (the hard part), a thin brown paper washer behind it should stop it seizing up again.

That really shouldn't be necessary,

Rocol anti fret compound will do the job without introducing a variable thickness element into the gap of the rear register.

One possible dodge to lock the spindle is to wind a rope once round the largest diameter pulley groove and twist it up tight with a bar to then lodge that against something solid. Heat the chuck backplate having annointed it liberally with WD40 or Plus Gas if you have it.

Get it too hot to touch and with a decent sized hardwood bar across the chuck jaws whack the outer end hard to shock it off the thread. It sounds brutal but I have moved chucks stuck on 40 years or more by similar means.

You are correct to spare the back gear cluster, the gears are in cast iron and teeth are easily lost that way.

Regards

Brian

So an update on my “new” lathe. I managed to get the chuck off without further drama. Took chuck off backplate and bolted a length of angle across backplate and a rubber strap wrench around the pulley. A small amount of heat from a hot airgun on the backplate and it loosened without any impacts. Change gear came off spindle end with a small 3-leg puller. Threaded collar came undone after application of penetrating oil. Bearing pinch bolts loosened and spindle is out. I can confirm the lathe is indeed a ML2 or short bed “Superior” model with bronze bearings. That is the end of the good news. The spindle and bearings are worn and scored. Rear bearing is worse as suspected because the gap in the housing was fully closed. It’s scored down to 0.2mm undersize. The front is 0.1mm under. So I’ve limited options,
1/ New spindle and bearings - not available.
2/ Repair old spindle and possibly re-bore bearings.
3/ Clean and lightly polish the old spindle, tighten the front bearing up (taking care not to crack the housing and accept it for how it is.
I’m tending towards 3/ but have asked one of the spindle plating/spraying and grinding companies for a rough idea of the cost of refinishing the spindle. I suspect it will be more than the lathe is worth. Being a parallel design with closed bearing blocks it does not really lend itself to other repair options like sleeves.

Ther are some photos in my album.

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 09/09/2018 18:48:15

I just had a thought. The spindle from a roller bearing ML10 / Speed 10 could be ground for an over size (26mm) front bearing and a sleeve added for the rear. The shells would have to be bored or reamed oversize to match. The only question I have is the length of the shaft in a ML10, does anyone know?  How long is a ML7 spindle? it looks too long to me.
And of course where to get one for less than the £130 Myford want.

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 09/09/2018 19:21:26

So an update on the ML2. I finally had a company come back with an estimate for repairing the damaged spindle - £350 to £500. This is dressing journals, ceramic spraying, grinding journals, line boring headstock bushes and re-assembling. The bull gear and pulley would also need boring oversize. This is not a bad quote for the work involved, but more than I want to invest in this machine. While I was considering options a complete late headstock appeared on ebay see

**LINK**

Not the best picture but there are some differences in this headstock that I want to check out before detailing in a later post. I’m guessing some scraping or shimming may be required to get this aligned to my bed. I’d already ordered a 2MT alignment bar which will be invaluable for that. The bar was from an Indian seller on ebay (most seem to be from India for some reason) and seems to be pretty good quality. It arrived in a few days by Fedex so pretty good service.

A "non prototype" solution might be to find someone, local, (a Model Engineering Club member?) who would turn down the Journals, make up a sleeve, that could be Loctited on, and then finish turned / polished back to original size. Possibly, then you could refit it and turn your own pair of phosphor bronze bearings, which, when installed should return things to original size and clearances.

The backlash in the Cross Slide, might be mostly longitudinal wear. If so, you can turn up a spacer to remove the end float. Obviously, the wear between Leadscrew and Nut will remain. The nut on the ML7 is only mazak, so is prone to wear, but is it possible that ML7 spares (Nut and / or Leadscrew) might fit?

However you make that repair, Moly grease might be a good lubricant when assembling.

Howard