Anybody recognise this old lathe?

I came across this picture of a rather unique lathe in a book I bought from a secondhand bookshop at the weekend.

I was intrigued by some of the special features it has and I wondered if anybody has seen it before.

Of course the book gave a full description of the lathe and who built it and for who it was made and I thought the brains trust might like to see if they could identify it and what it was intended to be used to make?

A couple of clues: It is British and it was made in the early 1820s.

Let's see what answers we get and then I will give you the full details later!

Mmm

Broadly in the style of Holtzapffel

But not quite a 'standard' ornamental lathe.

MichaelG.

From the date I would say it was before Holtzapffel, but the interesting piece sitting on the space behind the headstock has all the appearance of a rather fancy elliptical chuck so I agree it looks very much like an ornamental lathe. The separated beds are interesting too.

Brian

A wood lathe, for fancy woodwork?

Edited By Ady1 on 14/03/2016 10:34:12

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Brian,

May I ask why ?

**LINK**

MichaelG.

Agreed, not too early for Holtzapffel - TD Walshaw shows a picture of his 1805 lathe in his book on ornamental turning but Holtz seemed to favour rope drives rather than belt. Too early for Birch I think. Fenn? I favour a use for elliptical turning.  Given the auxiliary bed, possibly elliptical spirals.  Does that handle clear the primary bed? - could just be a perspective issue.

Rod

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 14/03/2016 11:04:13

My first thoughts were a lathe for ornamental work. Could even be clock faces or for some form of instrumentation work.

John

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Could it be for making the tools for which this firm was apparently noted ?

Dennis

Some of you are getting warmer but nobody so far has hit the nail on the head.

Interesting about Holtzapffel, I had assumed from the name it was a German company but googling it I found it was actually a British company albeit the originators were sort of German as they came from Alsace, that often disputed little area which oscillated between Germany and France.

I will disclose the answer in the next day or so if nobody gets it right. I think you will be surprised with the true story!

Well, it looks like a substantial treadle machine. What a find, i think you're on the mark for the early 1800's, we have to remember there were alot of small companies making machines who are no longer in business. The lack of a "globalized" network meant that the demand was often met by lots of little firms spread all over the place. I'm fairly sure this would be substantial enough for metal work.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 14/03/2016 13:00:57

The "continent" were sort of the cheap supplier to the UK like China is now. I believe one make cast the change wheel cover in the UK and included made in Gt Britain on it but the rest was made in Germany to keep costs down. Might be Zyto - not sure.

John

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I'm racking my brains to think of something particular item that lathe was tailored to make. It certainly has some unusual features.

The 'handle' mentioned looks to be the main 'cross slide' wheel and appears that it can be fitted in two locations depending on the angle the slide is set too. Its is shown as being parallel to the main bed but can be rotated like our now common topslide. There looks to be right angle skew gears where the wheel fits on the feedscrew.

I wonder what the (laying down) large spoked wheel is for.? maybe its a spare handwheel but any lug for the handle is out of sight under the round object.

The 'perforated box' toolpost is an interesting item to.

Ian P

There seems to be a couple of odd ball aspects to it. Turning the handle which appears to be on the end of a lead screw. It also has a gear quadrant of sorts but from what is shown it's hard to see how the gears could always be made to mesh.

Using the hand tools if that is what they are in the rack would be interesting too

I'd guess it's for making lead screws or something like that but wonder why there is a division plate on the spindle unless it was also used for making dials.

John

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The many dividing holes at the back of the headstock are clues.

Clearly has screwcutting capability, and some big changewheels.

The slide on an angle plate at the back of the stand looks like an elliptical chuck, but isn't, I am sure.

It looks too robust for an OT lathe, some form of instrument maker's machine, or making master threads/gears?

Looks like the cross slid an be inverted, it has a dovetail underneath which MIGHT mate with the angle plate with the two-stage dividing head on it.

Ahh . found the answer using google image search. Yes all that provision for differential indexing is the answer

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 14/03/2016 13:53:02

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That one's a gear wheel, Ian ... view the photo full-size and the teeth are clearly visible.

I suspect that the purpose of the machine will become obvious once we understand the headstock arrangement.

MichaelG.

[posting was interrupted by coffee]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/03/2016 13:56:06

Here's a clue - it's in the science museum and it is completely unique.

Neil

I don't think the feed handle can be turned easily unless the sort of secondary bed is swung out at an angle - in that case it's making cones of some sort and I'd guess the power feed wont work hence the handle.

= Multi purpose maybe.

John

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Are we making bits for a difference engine?

Rod

I couldn't compute what it was until I spotted the difference!

Got frustrated by the Science Museum website

This is a decent reference though:

**LINK**

Note: It was quite a small world ... see here

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/03/2016 15:10:40