Hydrogen

Couldn't agree more. The government should insist that by some date in the not too distant any car can be charged from any charger without having to have an app on your mobile phone. A common price for everyone, I don't pay a different price for petrol just because I have Skoda. I don't do mobile phone banking or payment, it doesn't sound difficult to just stuff your card in and key in the pin. The outlet might need a multiplicity of sockets, but that's the manufacturer's problem, they should have got together at the very start and agreed a standard. Our govt could for once in it's life sit down and talk sensibly to the EU, then the manufacturers would have to sit up and take notice, no common charging system, no sell cars.

Not all of the charge points require a mobile phone and an app. Charge Place Scotland also issues an RFID card which you can use. I have their app on my phone but have only ever used the card at the charge points. It is linked to my account with them and if I use a charger that requires payment I get an email with the costs for the month and is is debited from my account.

I agree with much of what you say, and the point I was making earlier about WW2, is that we as a country just need to get on with it and upgrade the National Grid and provide more charging points - easily useable and payable.

I am still using my small-engined 2008 ICE vehicle - it would be very wasteful to scrap it now. I would love to own an electric car one day, but certainly cannot afford one. I am considering converting my car to electric myself, that would be an interesting project.

Most people do only commute < 100 mile distances, most of those much less than that, and getting all of those drivers into battery vehicles would help reduce emissions enormously. Robert says be cannot charge at home, but can at his place of work, so that might be the answer to that particular problem - workplace charging points for every car?

I am intrigued that even a 4WD high torque car is not sufficient, but you need a Landrover/Rangerover vehicle to make a particular 250+ mile journey in Scotland in the snow. Is that for work or a daily commute, and is it essential when the roads are virtually impassable ?

Public car charging is a real mess at the moment with several different connectors and payment systems. It obviously needs to be standardised and fairly soon. You can’t stop some companies over charging though, they do this already with Diesel and Petrol at motorway services. In my area some car parks no longer accept cash, you have to use an app. No mobile - no parking. The important thing is to grow the system as demand for them increases. It happened with other technologies like mobile phones.

An EV in Namibia? Good Lord!

Or South Africa, with stage 6 load shedding - load shedding now in its 14th year and growing....

It’s still early days for BEV’s but this is available now. Expensive at the moment but up to 320 mile range. Probably much nicer to drive than an old LR as well or are we talking expensive LR Discovery?

**LINK**

I missed the earlier bit about Cobalt but I thought most of it was a byproduct of copper mining? We still need copper don’t we? Mind you, the way battery development is going they may not need so much of these rare metals anyway. I saw something about Sodium possibly replacing Lithium in future battery packs. The technology could look very different in ten years time.

With a battery removable from below by undoing just 8 bolts, that should make a future income for the crooks currently nicking catalytic converters from under cars.

Edited By V8Eng on 12/01/2023 14:55:18

My problem with current BEVs is that If i travel to visit or volunteer at The WaterWorks Museum (142 miles each way ) the sort of BEV that I can afford is unlikely to get me home again on a full charge.

So please don't quote me what a Tesla can do!

My 1 litre Euro 6 compliant petrol, will; with another 200 miles to spare, l despite having only a 35 litre tank.

We can reach a holiday destination in Devon before needing to refill.

Battery /motor / control technology still has some scope for development.

I C technology has been developing rapidly for a century, Battery powered vehicles for long distance travel has not, by the looks of it.

Maybe we are returning to the days of my youth where there buses from outlying villages to town only on market fays?

Howard

Yes, that's where the reality hits the road! (apologies) - the practicality kicks in.
After theorising how green EVs are is over, it's what it means for you and me in the practicality and convenience.
Wait for a bit - but not too long if 70+
A little bit unfair - we do have some wind, but....

Are high power( fast) chargers single or 3Ph and what sort of load do they draw ? Most chargers seem to be 7Kw which hardly seems fast , though some are sold as fast. How far would 1 hour at 7Kw get me in an average EV ? Noel.

Edited By noel shelley on 16/01/2023 10:20:19

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases.aspx

OK, it is a diesel type engine and a bit too large for a car or truck. It does get this thread back to its title.

JA

Yes that looks interesting. From what little I’ve read a good proportion of the Hydrogen already used in industry is produced at or very near the point of use. This seems to negate some of the storage and transportation issues of Hydrogen.

A third image should show the electric car plugged into a house with its roof covered in solar panels and the thought within the bubble being "I feel so smug".

There was a great South Park episode about the clouds of smug covering San Francisco from all the "Pius" hybrid drivers. I imagine the smug output of Teslas is even higher.

One often hears the same sentiment as the cartoon, (with the red car); " why should I bother with electric, you still have to burn fossil fuels".

I say that, (when we upgrade the grid and sort out the charging issues), it will be more efficient to have most cars electric, even if charged from gas or whatever, than having most cars powered from IC engines:

The enormous gas turbine engines running at peak efficiency, and closely monitored, maintained and adjusted at the electricity generating plant; are vastly more efficient and cleaner burning than the hundreds of thousands of individual IC engines - badly maintained, choked-up, badly adjusted, badly monitored, inefficient, and not driven at peak efficiency.

And of course, electricity is now generated from wind, solar, (and should also be from super reliable and predictable tidal flow, here in the UK), so it has even fewer CO2 emissions.

All of aviation, (most of which is unnecessary), produces around 4% of the total CO2 emissions, Other transport, including private cars; around 30%. Heating our homes 40%. Even making concrete produces around 8%.

.

Edited By John Doe 2 on 16/01/2023 13:28:50

Yes but even if that was entirely the case then at least the emissions are in one place and static so give the potential for carbon capture rather than distributed around cities where they pollute the air that millions breathe.

regards Martin

I see the internet has mangled the Cartoon. This is the right one!

Dave

The cartoon shows a point that used to annoy my Dad, a Chartered Electrical Engineer, though he worked as a defence-research scientist.

That was the gormless TV News and newspaper editors using images of the water-vapour rising from cooling-towers as supposed "pollution". (The real emissions from the chimneys, whilst undeniably mainly CO2, are of course too faint to be photogenic.)

Are high power( fast) chargers single or 3Ph and what sort of load do they draw ? Most chargers seem to be 7Kw which hardly seems fast , though some are sold as fast. How far would 1 hour at 7Kw get me in an average EV ?

7Kw maximum from 240V single phase, 22Kw maximum from 415V 3 phase - these are the most that can be done from home (dependant on house supply & the car built-in charger capabilty) & typically from the likes of supermarket or carpark charge points. 240 or 415V supplies don't charge the car directly, they supply power to an on-board charger that is typically 7Kw, but some can handle up to 22Kw if a suitable 3 phase supply is connected - if a "22Kw" charger is connected to a single phase supply, it becomes a "7Kw charger".

The car charger "negotiates" with the charge point when initially connected to determine it's capabilty & sets up a charge rate according to what the charge point can supply. This how the chargers handle charging via a 13A socket - the 13A "charger", when connected to a built-in 7Kw capable unit in the car sets the charge rate to suit the supply (typically 2.5 Kw) - connect to a 7Kw capable wall box & the same built-in charger will charge at a higher rate. Same charger in the car, same 240V supply voltage, same connection at the car, but the car will charge at different rates accoring to the capabilty of the supply.

Fast chargers are DC devices that connect direct to the car battery without using the charger built-in to the car. These seem to be getting higher capacity all the time with some up to 360Kw now but, again, it depends upon the capability of the car & it's battery system for what the actual maximum rate for a particular car is. Cold batteries cannot be charged fast - some cars pre-heat the battery to get it to optimum temperature before starting fast charging & then need to cool the battery as charging progresses to prevent overheating.

Typically EVs seem to do 2.5 - 4 miles per KwH according to the road tests I have read - depends on conditions, temperature, weather, driving speed & driving environment.

I got as far as taking a test drive in an EV (MG 5) when I changed cars last year. The car was OK and, as a car, was a viable contender, but I chose to get another petrol car. There were too many "unknowns" with the EV at the time (not the least of which was not knowing what it would cost when it eventually arrived + the unknown delivery date) & the lack of available public charging infrastructure was a factor. With current electricity prices, I am happy that I made the right decision for me at the time.

Nigel B

Thank you Nigel, that answers my question. I will stick with my waste veg oil powered diesel, fuel cost me 55p per gallon, the odd fuel filter and a bit of work. Noel.