Daft question (maybe)

Prices seem pretty reasonable for what you get. What's even more interesting is that the fixed steady is listed at £217 whereas a secondhand one has just sold on Ebay for £310.

Andrew

Actually most of my attitude to them is in comparison with a conventional counter shaft lathe where it is easy to change speeds with a belt even on my me10 boxford which is a bit of a pain in that area. Myfords are a lot easier.

I wouldn't be totally happy with a lathe were I had to swing the cover off the end a play with difficult belt settings but have - hobbymat, unimat, chinese. Compared with that yes variable speed is great with some provisos. Jason mentioned one, diameter speed and cut depth. Brian mentioned another case of this on his baby lathe turning cast iron. He doesn't want to try that again I say basically fine but do appreciate the limitations. They are more important at some lathe sizes than others. Providing the power levels needed are improving.

Variable speed conversions are a touchy subject. There are people about who will post a video showing a short sharp hefty piece of work being done with an ac motor being run at a very low speed/ Isn't it great etc. It can be done if the motor that was fitted is powerful enough and many are when over loaded but if the motor is run like that often without sufficient longer stops to allow it cool or run like this for longer periods it will let the smoke out. I haven't seen any claims like these on here, only the opposite. Good because the other way misleads people. Actually there is a better solution to this problem that people don't seem to use. I'm sure my Boxford would run at heavy loads a bit short of the motor ratings for weeks over a 2:1 speed range without changing a belt setting.

I'm toying with the idea of going back to pure belt - even with sophisticated switching they are a lot more noisy.

I've heard that the larger VS lathes fitted with ac motors are also fitted with a separate cooling fan. I'll be interested so see how that works out. I am going to try it on something that doesn't matter too much at some point. Not my lathe though.

Reliability on the vs lathes does seem to have been a bit mixed. Pass on that. Lots use them and only a few complain. My impression is that it could be more of a mini lathe problem. I didn't have any problems with a small VS mill I had that used the USA controller design but the noise from the low speed gear irritated my wife. I would much rather have had a belt and more than two ranges but it did what I and the subsequent owner wanted.

John

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Makes the new Myfords that surface their heads from time to time seem very OTT and that they must be made from Platinum.

They are a lot of coins that few here could justify. I just suppose it's how fortunate someone is financially and what they choose to do with their money. If I could afford one (which I certainly cannot) I would be very tempted.

Nick

Looks like they are throwing in some extras that was charged before Nick. I am also extremely surprised the price has dropped in 24 years probably due to most of it made in asia.
Looks like bore gone up to 40mm as well now

Think I would have to see the real thing if investing £14552 for the M300 with Dickson tool post - prices plus VAT.
So is it any better than an Asian made machine or just living off a much loved respected brand name most UK companies have done the last 20 odd years.
One thing the Chinese haven't copied on any lathe to date is the proper gearbox as used for last 50 years by Colchester and Harrison, that I couldn't live without.
Think I would go for a properly rebuilt machine of known origin Ie made in England not just assembled.

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I think it's just the castings that are Asia sourced. - I have been 'told' that they are then ground and machined etc. in the UK

Nick

Jon

Interesting to hear your opinion on the Harrison gearbox. I have an M250 and after looking inside the headstock gearbox I get the impression it is a precision made quality product, almost over engineered. What I hate about it though are the gear selector controls!

Having now fitted a VFD I rarely change ratios, when I do have to its a confusing and imprecise process, confusing mainly because of the way Harrison have labelled the knob and scales and imprecise because the detents are not very detenting.

The screwcutting gearbox is also a let down in the ergonomics area

Ian P

£250 for a single (genuine) Multifix toolholder. Haha, if you don't ask, you don't get but for that price you could get a whole set including the post and half a dozen holders from somewhere like Create. Funny how the rests are much more reasonable but I suppose they are probably made and then imported along with the castings for the base machine.

It's not unusual to see items on ebay selling for more than the new price on things like steadies. Also items that turn up in an Amazon box. Think you can guess why. I bought something once without checking around new and about twice the price of what Maplin sell it for. No one would look for stainless steel weighing scales there.

I talked to some one who had bought a number of harrisons a few months ago. He reckoned that they were made in Taiwan and just assembled in the UK. He initially thought he was buying UK product.

Taiwan was the place the cheap lathes came from. They are the people who thought ahhh why use hardened bearings on hobby machines. Maybe hardened ones are used now. India has a brief spell too at one time. It seems that their Myford clones were very good.

John

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Ian,

Your M250 may be as you say but the M300 is an improvement in handling of the gearing. Inside the headstock, I agree the gear head is superb and the Gamet Super Precision bearings used probably cost more than many a Far East lathe!

Dalian Machine Tool Group (China) used to make a copy/similar machine using the same bearings and a drive clutch, under 600 Group supervision I believe, but does not appear on current Dalian product list.

I have an old Colchester Chipmaster (1956). It was removed from a university. I have fixed and modified it to increase its versatility, fitted a new motor and inverter drive. It works very well and is accurate. These lathes seem to be occasionally available on ebay for good prices compared to Myfords etc and I think they are well worth consideration if you are prepared/able to fix them up

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121885394219?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131721873996?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Alan

How did you get on with the headstock bearings Alan. I've always wondered if they can be changed cheaply.

The reason I ask goes back to training. The chipmaster was the only lathe that around 20 people a year used for a bit short of a week. It was one of the few lathes that turned rings due to slight bearing wear. This gives a pretty good finish with the rings every now and again along the length. It was the only lathe we were allowed to use emery cloth on. Some others had the same sort of problem but usually depth of cut could be used to up the load and get rid of the play - !##!!??? they made us hand feed for a long time on those but it does come with practice. Slightest change in feed rate produces a ring,

Intsructors mic'd up all of the work and checked the finish and then stuck a pin in a board - colours ranging from black to gold. Gold helped the tool bonus a lot. Black not at all, might even reduce it.

The work done on it was all smallish, max 1/2 dia or so and this one was used because 3000 rpm speeded up the work rate. Some one did look at the bearings but reckoned that they weren't adjustable - I just fetched some emery cloth out of the stores. The rest of the lathe was perfect.

John

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I was in Rotagrip a couple of months ago and they although they do not advertise it have a very large selection of used kit.

I noticed a very, very grubby and 'seemingly' tatty old Chipmaster. But when I looked closely at it the lathe was in as new condition.

It seems that many, many moons ago this lathe had been taken out of service. What gave it the tatty appearance was that somebody had at that time taken the trouble to encase it in storage grease. This over the decades had attracted more crud and grime.

I am sure that a couple of hours spent with a gallon of paraffin and a brush would reveal a gleaming true gem.

Nick

Edited By Nick_G on 10/02/2016 13:04:47

I think it's just the castings that are Asia sourced. - I have been 'told' that they are then ground and machined etc. in the UK

Harrison have not made manual lathes in the UK for some years - probably 10 or more. My brother-in-law used to work there in the section that made the gears & shafts - he took voluntary redundancy when the manual machines were outsourced (to China IIRC), as all he would have been making would have been a very limited range of timing pulleys, shafts & spacers for the CNC machines (Harrison Alpha & Colchester Tornado). I'll try & remember to ask him when that happened next time we meet.

At least one late model of a Colchester manual lathe (Magnum IIRC) was a re-badged Czech machine.

Nigel B.

As far as I know there are no manual Harrison lathes made in the UK anymore, only the CNC Alpha's are still made in UK. Not sure about Colchester's though.

Thanks for confirming that Nigel.

Nick my reference to gearbox was the screw cutting one quite different to the M250 where you have to faff about with change wheels. Seen on M300, flat top Students and larger from circa 1968 ish.

Just so happens had to turn an M10X1 running in to an 1/8!bsp (28tpi) this morning dead easy just select pitch via 4 knobs whether metric or imperial job done nothing more right up to think its 4mm pitch, modular and so on.

Geared head not a problem always changing speeds and retains the torque. Problem is inverter needs to be big 7.5kw its like starting a 9hp+ motor anything above 1200rpm, 2500 rpm forget it takes about 9 seconds with push start light chuck or not. Up and running not a problem can only just hint at it ramping up whereas the 5.5hp rotary convertor dies with minimal clean up cuts in a slowish gear.

Hi Folks

I am the guy who started this thread and I did not expect it to go in this direction or this long . Some interesting stuff especially on the Harrison. Also interesting on people opinions on the Far East stuff.

My friends has not decided on a definite project but he is heading in the general direction of 1/3 scale traction or 5" gauge Locos.

From what has been written here going far east is not a bad way to go and going second hand is the way to get a good machine but buyer beware.

At the risk of kicking over hornet nest is this a fair summary?

Mike

Sounds a fair summary

His choice of two subjects will greatly affect what he goes for as a 4" traction engine will require a much larger machine than a 5" loco

Because I knew this site would be the easiest for find with the sort of gear both might need I googled this one

**LINK**

Their none hobby site but there are several outlets for industrial items made in China.

But as Jason mentioned a 4" traction engine is bit bigger than a 5" loco.

Personally I would be inclined to look at what Excel have but the smallest lath is this one

**LINK**

They also do some Bridgeport sized millers. That I would suspect is a must for the traction engine.

**LINK**

Seems some will be on live demo at the NEC and available on order with discount.

Out of my range on size and price but each time I have been there machines like these have been on there way out of the door. Several of them usually.

At the smaller sized lathes there is always boxford and also some rather similar Chinese / Far East ones and it seems Harrison. All classed as precision and not cheap either. The problem with the higher end lathes is that companies usually buy big even though most lathe work in say a toolroom is under 2" dia and less than 6" long. - that's why the ends of the bed wear and the cross slide gets stiff once it's wound out a bit. Colchester Triumphs used to be a popular small lathe for general use.

John

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The idea of made in UK, in the popular imagination died years ago, i certainly cant think of many things made 100% in this country, it's just bits and pieces mainly,(not as a retail item anyway, more like bespoke) just look at the price and you can see why nobody can afford to, even many things that have a claim to British heritage are on dubious foundations.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 12/02/2016 03:24:40