Soba Vice Problem

You are entitled to your opinion Chris, just as much as I am to mine. As I said in my earlier post, no one has to agree or disagree with my opinion.

My opinion is based on my knowledge and my experience which is different to yours, specifically with reference to engineering tools and bearings in particular. If over time you visited production lines of engineering tools and bearings in China, and saw the branded and unbrandaded products coming off the same line, perhaps you might consider a more balanced view. By branded, I specifically refer to well known Taiwanese, Japanese, German, British and Amercan brands in engineers tooling and bearing industry. The issue of QC to which you refer, is variable, depending on which of these branded manufacturers you refer to.

What you say is true just as much as what I am saying is true. You can buy unbranded engineering tools and bearings at a cheaper price than the branded stuff which has come off the same production line. In such cases, being cheap does not make it poor quality. The only issue is that the end buyer does not clearly know if something is good or bad. This is where I suggest that there is good and bad in every price range. Again, I don't really expect you to agree with me.

In certain cases there are better Chinese measuring tools than those marketed 'manufactured' by a well known British brand. For a like for like measuring tool the better made un-branded measuring tool is cheaper, but because buyers are not brand aware / nor can they expected to be, it is difficult for someone without knowledge to make an informed decision when compared against a well know brand.

So, even though I respect your point of view, I stand by my statement, based on my personal experience. I personally believe that one should avoid making un-balanced sweeping negative statements about engineering tools.....and bearings...without due consideration.

Ketan @ ARC

I would really like to know who would be using it in order to answer that question properly, would it be David Bailey or some chap from down the street?

It really isn't that straightforward.

graham.

Sometimes the branded version has to cost less to make (be lower quality) in order to pay for the brand advertising.

In electronics there used to be 2%,5%,10%,20% resistors all coming off one production line. It wasn't that 20% might be less accurate it was certain that they were as they were the ones that didn't meet the 10% test but other factors, eg stability, were just as good as that wasn't the selection criteria.
I believe the same method is used with ball bearings.

Back to topic and a caution. If you have a cheaper swivel vice have a look at the nuts underneath holding the two together. Mine were just ordinary nuts no washer so not much surface area taking the load. Just asking for a breakout. It was second hand but I don't think the previous owner had ever used it so not changed them from new.

Around 17 years ago I bought a new Record 5 inch drill vice from a local shop. It came impressively packaged in a moulded polystyrene case with an image on the box proudly illustrating the guaranteed clamping force possible between the jaws.

At first glance the vice looked good with superb accurate castings. But the vice did not have any machined surfaces anywhere other than the underside of the base, it was just left as cast and nicely painted all over.

There were no hardened jaw plates fitted to the unmachined jaws, the guideways for the moving jaw were not machined and underneath the guides for the moving jaw keep plate were also not machined. There wasn't even a keep plate fitted to stop the jaw lifting, but the keep plate mounting hole positions were marked on the jaw but not drilled or tapped.

The handle had not been knurled and no tee bar was supplied, so it couldn't even be tightened. When I did try to use it the sliding jaw just lifted by a mile, so the vice was just about next to useless.

Record must have been trying to keep the price competitive with all the cheaper imports.

A few years ago I bought a Soba drill vice, sometimes badged as Neal, the Soba was a similar price to the Record but is far better. It has hardened jaw plates and wide ground slideways for the long moving jaw and keep plate, and has a tee bar fitted so it can actually be used, it works extremely well. Even the jaw feedscrew is better than the one on the Record vice.

I still have the Record vice and have machined all the nessesary areas to make it usable. Although as supplied it was a big disappointment for a product that at the time was still made in Sheffield.

Edited By Lathejack on 27/07/2014 11:37:06

I purchased one of these vices at least 5 years ago, it had exactly the same problem, still has as I see no reason to correct it. The holes in mine are drilled 10.75 and I use M8 tee nuts and studs for clamping it down and this works perfectly well for me.I use it most of the time without the swivel base to gain more Z axis space. I would like to say that apart from these two holes being on the p**s it is a very well made vice, castings are good ,machining all over is to a good standard and it does what it was purchased for. I imagine that every one of these 3 inch vices has the same problem - anybody else got one?

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That's very good to hear, Baz

I hope that David is reassured that his money was well spent.

MichaelG.

Thinking about it, I don't really see why you would want to swivel a milling vice in the first place. I have never yet come across a reason to do it, but maybe you lot know different?

Martin

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Martin,

If you look at the machining example on that page, it should be fairly obvious.

MichaelG

Fair point. That's what I would have used my rotary table for. I guess I rarely make oblique slots.

Martin

Just a quick note to say thanks for the advice, and in the end I sent the vice back for a refund and ordered something similar from elsewhere, but without the ‘alignment problem’.

David

Always nice to see a happy ending.

MichaelG.

Glad to hear you got it sorted !

For what it's worth I bought a plain 4" Soba vice and the mounting holes are spot on with the vice jaws. They were so good I made two press fit "sleeves" for the vice that extend below the vice when fitted in place (I don't actually remove them from the vice normally) the exposed parts of the sleeves are a snug fit in the table slots of my mill and simply dropping them into the slots and bolting the vice down it's within .001" parallel with the table. This is the vice.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee286/Arbalist/IMGP2270_zpsf2692ad1.jpg

Edited By Victor Russell on 11/08/2014 21:36:53

Wouldn't happen to be an ER32 one intended for fitting to a Boxford would it?

Went through quite a few before I gave up, got a refund and fitted one from Arc Euro to a backplate, it's far less elegant but it does the job. The Soba one was tried on I think five different spindles dating from 1952 to 1980ish plus a brand new 'still in the packaging' one from Boxford.

Can't fault Soba at all on the finish or the consistency of the work as they would all stop threading onto the spindle nose at exactly the same point.

Other Soba stuff has been ok, got a couple of their ground all over 'precision' milling vices and something else I can't recall right now.

Firstly, the bolt holes are most probably just clearance for the mounting bolts/studs, so not intended for dowels or fitted bolts. YES, the holes should be a bit better aligned than they seem to be, but as already said "You get what you pay for" Peanuts and Monkeys and so on.

If a swivel base, I would set the vice at 0 degrees to the base, and then open up the offending hole(s) a little.

As already advised, clamp a parallel against one side of a Tee slot, invert vice, clamp to parallell, and open up the offending hole, preferably with an end mill or slot drill .

If possible, mill a slot for a key, across the base, and drill and tap for securing screws.

Once aligned, right way up, make a key to fit the vice, and to be a snug fit in the Tee slot.

If this is not possible, make an alignment fixture, ready for future use.

Turn the bottom end of two pieces of round bar, to be a snug fit in the Tee slot, but not long enough to protrude into the Tee nut area, (and tall enough that a horizontal bar can be clamped in the vice; eventually)

Drill through to take long bolts (preferably) or studs, to engage with tee nuts in the slot.

Fix the horizontal bar to the two verticals, at such a height that it clears the base of the vice jaws, but so that material needs to be removed from the vertical plane, to allow the vice jaws to clamp on to it.

Having now made a sort of "goal post", (ensuring that the parts cannot easily move relative to each other) clamp it to the table. Using an end mill, machine the face that will bear against the fixed jaw of the vice, removing material until the vice can be clamped to it, with the vice fixings in place, but not tight.

You may need to offer up the vice, a few times, to get the correct position.

If you want to, machine a little material off the face that will be contacted by the moving jaw.

Now, to align the vice, it is laid on the table, over its fixing bolts (left slack) and the "goal post" fixture is clamped into the Tee slots.

The vice is now clamped to the horizontal member.

When the vice holding bolts are tightened, the vice should be correctly aligned.

Slacken the vice, remove the "goal post" bolts , "goal post" and its Tee nuts, and the vice should be aligned within a thou or so.

This saves me about 15 minutes of clocking, winding and tapping to and fro, when I replace the vice on the table of the mill.

It is not my original idea, just a variation on a time saving idea published some time ago.

Howard

This is the underside of my Soba vice showing the two locating "sleeves" I made for it. I just slide the sleeves over the mounting studs and they fit snugly in the table slots to give a fit within 001" of parallel. Just a quick easy turning job to suit your vice/table.