New hobby lathe for retired engineer?

Usually in the hobby environment... power stated by certain sellers such as Clarke - Machine Mart is 'input power'. Output power is likely to be lower, but possibly/probably compensated mechanically by the 6 Speed gearing?... I guess this may be okay for the aluminium alloys you are expecting to turn (at max speed), most of the time... and as you have a fitter background you can do some mechanical fettling to remind you of your old days

Ketan at ARC.

Sign up to their email spam letter, and they will send you one periodically.

I really wouldn't recommend it though, I wasn't joking.

Most stores have one in (or the CL500, same lathe with added milling monstrosity) so at least you can see one in person and judge the (lack of) quality for yourself.

The most arduous job I can think of as likely is boring a set of bike yokes (some folk will know what I mean, hence the required swing for faceplate mounting the yokes) up to 55mm (max) for a depth of around 25mm max material thickness. Typically 6082 or 6061 alloy. I recognise this is not what this machine is for but if I do that four times in two years I'd be going well on my projects. I see lots of light cuts in my future when boring a set of yokes!

Indeed, happy hours of hand fettling is definitely in my plan.

FB

Thank you. If it can manage +/-0.05mm that's plenty good enough. When I need a bearing fit on a wheel spindle I fully expect to polish the final fit of bearing to spindle. Heresy, I know. But I am not proud and happy to do this.

FB

The first lathe I bought came from machinemart. Never again. Ever. They are not lathe specialists or even anything else lathes. After-sales help and assistance - about zilch.

They do not and cannot have ‘VAT FREE’ sales at any time. Mr Taxman would be down on them like a tonne of bricks! They are simply having a “20% off” sale. VAT is still payable.

A decent second hand lathe would very likely be better than a new machinemart lathe, IMO. Very early on, I got fed up with either winding the lead screw or waiting for the power feed to drive it back. Insanely manumatic in this century.🙂 I expect, with my later experience I could improve it, but by then I had a £100 Little John which turned (out) so much better. I only changed that for the 5” because the 5” was a big improvement over the very adequate LJ.

I have many friends inc myself who work on classic bikes. My cousin has a motorcycle shop in Leeds. The Machine mart lathes yuk. They had a brand new one in the workshop for 2 weeks before selling it on. The rest of my many classic bike restorer mates have old machines like Harrison, Colchester & the likes. The reason of them having big old machines was the ability to swing a motorcycle wheel & large dia parts. 2 of my mates have a big old British lathe & a little Chinese mini lathe for small work.

None of this info will probably be much good to you. You seem to have your sights set in a direction.

The only reason I have posted is because of the association I have with classic bikes & the mistakes others have made buying the wrong kit to start with. Hope whatever you get , you may be happy with. Out of interest I only have a little Super 7, which I manage with. But anything large is a no no . But that does not matter as if I needed anything large machining I can always let a friend do the job.

Incidentally , my cousin with the bike shop served his apprenticeship at a Company call Richardsons engineering. As a turner. + 2 of the other guys were machine shop men.

Steve.

Steve.

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

That is what I would expect. It just makes me wonder what else does not tally with the real truth - the user needs to know the proper details, not the exaggerated carp that gets highlighted. Much the same with compressor capacities - free air or the hyped-up ‘air displacement’ that actually means not a lot! Some band saw descriptions also appear to be misleading to potential purchasers.

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

That is what I would expect. It just makes me wonder what else does not tally with the real truth - the user needs to know the proper details, not the exaggerated carp that gets highlighted. Much the same with compressor capacities - free air or the hyped-up ‘air displacement’ that actually means not a lot! Some band saw descriptions also appear to be misleading to potential purchasers.

I guess that after all this discussion it would help to move things along, and hopefully allow people to make alternative suggestions if we knew your budget. The sort of spec you have identified almost certainly does not exist in the Chinese mini-lathe market. Remember that Ketan, who sells fine machines, has openly turned away your business because of your spec which then may actually exceed your expectations. So how much do you want to spend?

It occurs to me also that if we knew roughly where you are located then some, including me and I suspect my friend Chris Evans, may be able to let you see their alternatives. I do not have a lathe as big as Chris's but it will cope with a 10 inch diameter swing. It is a Myford 254S and is far superior in every respect, in my opinion, than the traditional ML7 etc Myford's and every Chinese mini-lathe on the market. I live in Leicestershire and less than an hour from Chris. So when this lockdown is over, and you are close to the East Midlands, come and visit and see what can be done in regard to motorbike parts. HTH.

Thanks a lot all. I am nothing if not realistic about this stuff. Before I came here I knew my ideal spec machine did not exist for about a £1000-ish. Which is in fact why, being impressed browsing the forum, I joined and asked the question. The feedback has mostly been very helpful even if if some of the posts remind me of the 1970's conversations - "I am buying a new bike, I think a Honda 500/4 or a Suzuki T500". Mates down the pub - "No, you don't want a Honda, you want a BSA". Anyway, to answer MadMike, I am near Manchester. As I already said, I do not expect much beyond simply being able to do what I explained. Wheel spindles, yoke spindles, sundry spacers, every now and then swing a set of fork yokes to bore. Even a piece of "cr*p" Chinese machine tool "should" be able to meet my needs. I'm not looking for anything capable of building space rockets. The formerly mentioned Clarke CL430 is 99% perfect. If I can get one at a 20% discount, it's even in budget. If there is something else out there that can do what that mahine (on paper) can do for around about that kind of money, I'm all ears. The 1% of stuff that CL430 type machine tool couldn't do, I'd get a mate to do it. As I said before, compromise is the name of the game. Budget v Capability. If that circle cannot be satisfactorily squared, then not buying a lathe at all is still an open option.

Thanks again fr the ongoing support, it's highly appreciated. It's been really helpful being here.

FB

Edited By Fred Bloggs 3 on 06/05/2020 02:18:44

You clearly know your way around machine tools. You can probably make a CL430 work for you, but as others have suggested, go and have a good look at one before getting too enthusiastic about it. There must be plenty of secondhand ones out there which haven't had much use and can't be worth a lot, so that might be an option.

You will only be able to bore the fork yoke central hole in that lathe, not the two outer holes that the fork legs fit into. To do them you will need a lathe with at least a 16" (406mm) diameter swing, about 100mm more than the CL430's 305mm.

And that's for a pair of spindly old 7" centre-distance forks off a drum brake model. Sizes go up rapidly as front ends got wider in the 1970s to fit disc brakes, double discs and then wider tires.

Unless of course you bolt the yokes to the cross slide with an angle bracket and mount a boring head on the lathe spindle. But to do that you need a slotted cross slide table, like a, err, um ... Myford.

Overall, it's a job best done in a milling machine anyway. So there is your next machine tool to look for.

Edited By Hopper on 06/05/2020 07:09:56

Thanks for the suggestion of a second hand CL430, yes, if they are cr*p there will be plenty hardly used ones out there cheap!

Now forgive me, here. In the olden days, Hopper, lathe swing was radius from spindle centre to bed. Often with a gap (removable section to increase swing). So, I need a 250mm swing (radius) to bore fork yokes. The CL430 305mm "swing" is not radius then, it's diameter? In other words, in my understanding that is 152.5mm, swing not 305. If that's true, then, no I cannot bore yokes on it. Thanks for the input.

Cheers.

FB.

Edited By Fred Bloggs 3 on 06/05/2020 07:21:22

It's all marketing hype. They like to quote the larger American spec for swing, which is the diameter. And then the model number of the lathe is the lateral distance between centres which is larger again at 430.

That CL430 is only 2-foot long overall. (600mm)

To get a 16 or 18 inch diamter swing lathe to do yokes you are up into the industrial sizes of machinery and well beyond the small hobby stuff. But they will have a hole up the spindle you can poke your arm through.

Edited By Hopper on 06/05/2020 07:32:09

Thanks Hopper. That makes perfect sense now. It looks like I will have to get a mate to finsih bore yokes for 50/54mm USD forks. I appreciate the time spent answering my dumb questions. But I last used a lathe >40 years ago.

FB.

Noo. Centre height is the distance from spindle centre to bed. Unless you are older than I am! Swing is a diameter and, as you rightly stated, a gap bed has a larger swing within that gap than approx twice the centre height.

Swing is usually quoted as twice centre height, but as ways generally have some separation the true swing is likely more than that. I suggest you re read my post of around 10 o’clock yesterday.

No worries. You are better off doing yokes on a milling machine to ensure precision location of the holes using its XY table or digital readout anyways. For modern USD forks you will need a 20" swing diameter or more on a lathe. Getting up there.

Think you are looking at the wrong machine, the CL430 is quoted as 430mm between cts and 300mm swing (150 ctr ht) and is 1100mm long

Though unless your fork legs are very close together you will want more than 300mm swing , quite possible to mount the work on the cross slide and us ea between ctrs boring bar for them.

Edited By JasonB on 06/05/2020 07:48:37

Thanks not done it yet and Hopper, your input is duly noted. And yes, in the early 70's lathe swing was definitely always radius, never diameter.

FB