renew driving licence

Goes against the requirement for working further into old age as well.

I doubt it. As I understand it, the Licence only confirms the driver passed a test that qualified him to drive certain vehicles at the time. Although test requirements have since changed, it's been the practice to let old licences stay valid until the holder needs a new one. That could be because he's been disqualified, or for any other reason the licence has expired, such as at age 70.

Renewal of age expired car licences is straightforward provided the driver is in good health. However, the new license reflects whatever the current rules are. Not unfair because the licence a 70 year old gets is exactly the same as the license issued to everyone else. Arguably it's unfair that older drivers were allowed to retain privileges denied to younger drivers since 1997.

Generally the UK car licence has removed obsolete vehicles like Road Locomotives and dropped the weight a driver is allowed to control on the road. Doesn't effect ordinary motoring, but wanting to driving big boy vehicles is more fuss. There's a smidgen of good news - at least one privilege has been added that older licences don't allow! Since 1/1/1997 the revised car licence allows anyone over 21 to drive a 15kW+ electric tricycle. Wow!!!

More complicated changes are in progress than Driving Licences. If effected, may be worth looking at what's needed to drive in Europe, especially on business. The rules have changed and are likely to do so again this time next year.

Dave

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Sorry, Norm ... I should perhaps clarify:

I thought you were talking about medium-sized vehicles with trailers [as indicated ^^^]

... Which is why I posted the link to categories page, where variations on that theme are described

It seems, from your follow-up, that you are actually protesting about the [potential] loss of licence for C1 and C1E

MichaelG.

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Perhaps this contains a better explanation of Classes vs Categories

https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories

And [whilst not a site that I would normally visit] this might be the best ‘Plain English’ guidance available:

https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/AdvicePdfs/Datasheet-40.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/02/2020 19:11:57

Dave, just goes to show that there are two ways (at least) of looking at everything.

Pete

Hi Dave, I don't see why it is arguable, I passed my test in 1973 and therefore had 23 years with these privileges that you call them, you might as well say that everyone should retake their whole driving test every time they change the categories that people are allowed to have. It's not all bells and whistles though, as my categories D1 and D1E comes with a 101 code and I would have to take an extra test to get it removed, not that I want or have any need to.

Spurry, so do you think those who are not old enough are being age discriminated too then?

Regards Nick.

That is an excellent document, thank you.

To reiterate, if anyone is like me under age 70 (just) and holds a driving licence issued pre-1997, the licence will include categories C1 and C1E(107) which permit that driver to use a vehicle and trailer where the combined GTW is over 3,500kg. I make the point that a number of caravaners and others fall into this group of individuals. C1E(107) differs from C1E in that it downgrades the maximum GTW to 8,250kg.

At licence renewal at age 70 those C1 and C1E(107) categories are lost IF one does it online or at a Post Office WITHOUT additional documents. These are forms D2 and D4, one of which has to be signed off by a doctor, and there will be a fee for this. The forms have to be submitted by post or through a Post Office. The licence has to be renewed every three years and the D2+D4 process repeated.

Edited By norm norton on 06/02/2020 10:45:05

New licence turned up today, as expected I've lost lorry and minibus, but everything else still there, needn't have worried as I don't actually want to drive a lorry, and no minibus means I can't be dragged back into driving horrible little scouts around the country!

Over 70 you only lose C1 and C1E you still get BE which allows you to drive vehicle upto 3.5 tonnes and pull any size trailer upto the maximum weight specified by the vehicle manufacturer.No need for medical

Yup, that's a possibility. Whenever rules change it might be necessary to revalidate that the people who have to obey them are still competent. Certainly done to me with a Finance qualification - I wasn't allowed to manage a budget until I'd proved I understood the current rules by passing a formal test. One year I was re-tested twice, the b****ds!

There's a reason the licensed weight limits have been dropped - accidents due to drivers losing control. On the other hand, I don't think there's any evidence drivers with retained privileges are a problem, perhaps because the few who use the weight privileges are good drivers.

But my point is, how is it fair that pre-1997 drivers are allowed to do things a new driver isn't, particularly as the current driving test is considerably harder than the one I took and the roads are busier? Looks like an inequality - where's the justice?

I only raised the issue because Pete mentioned Age Discrimination, which I don't think applies. May be best to not mention it - remember when Ladies Pension Age was lifted after a sex-discrimination complaint backfired!

Dave

Before 1935 you didn't need to take a driving test, you just bought a licence. There might just about be some centenarian drivers about who never passed a test. My Dad never did, but he would be 109 if he were still alive

With a B licence (car) you can drive pre 1960 lorries,buses,road locomotives.steam wagons etc,you can also drive forklifts and diggers on the road. So the weight can’t be a reason for dropping C1 licence,also gross train mass of Discoveries and Range Rovers are 5.5tonnes or more.

No, not any size of trailer. Only up to a combined vehicle + trailer weight (MAW) of 3.5 tonnes.

A VW Transporter for example has a MAW, or gross vehicle weight, of between 2.5 and 2.8 tonnes depending on specification. Most caravans, or trailers capable of carrying a small car, will easily take you over the 3.5 tonnes total.

I don't think that's true Norm Norton. B+E allows driving a vehicle up to 3.5tonnes plus a trailer over 750kg, as long as the trailer doesn't exceed the limit specified by the manufacturer of the towing vehicle. B+E is automatically included on your new driving license.

Hi, the BE weights depend again on when you passed your test, see MichaelG's previous link and click on Driving Licence Categories on the top right hand side.

S.O.D. all these things seem unfair when the rules are changed, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and it would be just as unfair for those who were allowed to drive certain categories before the changes, to have them removed. In a similar way, when they changed the coming of age from 21 to 18, I became of age at the same time as my eldest sister and my elder brother, OK, my eldest sister became of age before she was 21 but only by 8 months. I also meant to say in my last post that my C1E category has a 107 restriction on it as Norm Norton pointed out.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 07/02/2020 10:47:15

Many years ago, probably in the late 50's my aunt sent away for a provisional license after filling in the form she got at the local Post Office. About a week later she received in the post a license enabling her to drive "All Groups" including a Steam Roller and lorry of any size!

She returned the license with a covering note that she was applying for a provisional license but the license came back with a note that said as she had "All Groups" there was no other test she could take therefore a provisional license could not be issued!!

After many letters backwards and forwards she eventually had to take the train to Aberdeen to explain her situation at the government offices where she was told to just accept she had a full license as the paperwork to correct the error did not exist.

The irony is she never did take up driving so the license was never used.

RMA thank you for making me go back to square one and recheck. Maurice I owe you an apology and I am sorry I was wrong and you are right.

I am grateful that this forum discussion has caused me to find out the facts and it will be a big help to me when I have to renew at age 70. I have been led astray by friends who told me that I would lose my over 3.5 tonne GTW (Gross Train Weight) towing rights at age 70 renewal - they are wrong. A confusion has been that post 1997 licences only have category B and that this is restricted to 3.5 tonnes GTW. However, pre 1997 licences also have category BE, in addition to B, and this BE permits the vehicle MAW (Maximum Allowable Mass) to be up to 3.5 tonnes and for it to tow a trailer upto the vehicle's plated limit, just as RMA says.

At renewal at age 70 the pre 1997 licences retain category BE.

Thank you to those who were patient enough to tell me this. You have saved me going through the forms D2+D4 palaver.