Member postings for norm norton

Lots of different versions of Loctite is just clever marketing to sell more of it. As Hopper says, you just need permanent, medium and soft.

Similar money making policy putting on dates for expiry - if it is still runny it will still work.

Goodness me, eight pages of postings. Well, proved myself to be as guilty as the rest of you thinking this is interesting.

But I am intrigued by the thought that a youngster raised in metric will find the use of imperial to be a barrier. Do we really think that? Mmm, I don't know.

I, like most all of you, switch between imperial and metric and enjoy the flexibility it brings. My eldest and youngest sons, who are 39 and 33 years old respectively, happily talk to me in both measurements; one is a builder the other a design engineer. They did not use imperial at school. So does youngster mean under 25 years old?

If you are going to build a model locomotive there are massive learnings to do with machining, materials, soldering, painting. etc. Is the measurement system going to stop you? Well, yes if you just don't want to go there.

Many of us think that scratch building a 5" steam loco is an interest that is dwindling anyway, never mind the measurement units.

Norm

Michael

If the boiler is off, then make up a tee piece joined to flexible hose, 1/4 or 3/8 ID engine oil or fuel pipe works well secured with jubilee clips. The two ends fix onto adapters that you need to design and mount on the cylinder valve chest inlets at the top. The other common end of the hose goes to your compressor via an on/off valve. Bring the compressor outlet pressure up and it should run from around 10psi. You will need a proper, big workshop compressor to keep a 5inch loco running.

If the boiler goes back on make yourself a fitting that screws into one safety valve bush The fitting tail that sticks up will be finished to accept the length of hose.

Norm

Edit - this might help as it shows how I did the same job https://youtu.be/_Di62EOCriA

Edited By norm norton on 04/03/2023 10:36:59

Yes you are right, that is the theory. But my workshop drops to 4degC overnight in these cold spells, then I warm it to 14deg during the day. In the early mornings the RH is often in the 45-55% range because the cold air from outside that leaks in is much less able to carry moisture, The dehumidifier still runs and does not seem to freeze up.

If your workshop is left at near zero degrees for a few days then, of course, the compressor dehumidifier can achieve nothing. But the air outside is not saturated at those temperatures.

I had a desiccant type, it worked well for nearly one year. Unless the filters are very good, and you change them, all the workshop 'fine crud' ends up on the silica gel, which needs a clean surface if it is going to work. And my workshop is comparatively clean.

I had the silica gel swapped by the manufacturer (it was all glued together inside so not DIY friendly !) and they said it was filthy dirty. Waste of money because it all failed again after another year.

So now, for several years, I have had a 14inch square x 18inch high compressor type and it keeps purring away, on for perhaps a quarter of the time, with around 100ml/hour condensed water piped directly outside. My wall mounted RH meter usually reads between 55-65% RH.

Edited By norm norton on 26/02/2023 11:28:37

IMHO it is for drilling holes ready for a 9/16" reamer, as has been said.

I sought out and purchased all the morse taper drills 1/64" less than the big, major inch increments, for just that purpose. And there were lots of them on second hand tool tables at shows so industry used to keep them.

To set any worried minds at rest, I am not at all distressed at how I have been required to label my lathe DRO axes. I was just a little interested in the history as to when this might have come about. My tongue was slightly in the cheek.

I like the suggestion that the labelling of the axes was well before the time of DRO's and dates to the very earliest, complex automated machinery.

We all seem to be happy that the convention for milling machines in mapping X, Y and Z is agreed. This suggests that hobbyist equipment is being labelled in a similar manner to the types of industrial machine.

The interesting difference is in the lathe. There seems to be a consensus on what (I assume) is big industrial use for the spindle axis to be Z, and this make a lot of sense. If you take a great big mill, lay it on its side, the machine might look lathe-like but that spindle direction is still Z.

Perhaps we have a distinction between big industry and hobbyist/small industry suppliers of of scales and DROs. The responder who helpfully used bold type to point out my error in their eyes with a quote - "Who labelled the axes for DROs on a lathe as X and Y? You did." might note that I was following the supplier's manual. I have seen three different manufacturer's manuals that all agree on the small lathe X and Y labelling.

I have now fitted DRO's to four machines and if you obtain a two-axis lathe kit it comes with a X and Y labelled DRO. The X control has a specific function to x2 (times two) the X axis movement and it helpfully illuminates a 'diameter' LED. Therefore you cannot swap X and Y and retain this function.

If you obtain a three axis lathe DRO kit (hobbyist again) and put the Z scales in the top slide, then the Y and Z can be 'added' by a DRO push button. This is quite helpful on my Myford when you bring the saddle up to the work and finish with a few thou of cut on the top slide (set true on the Y axis) - the Z display will show the total travel into the work.

I will repeat the facts for anyone unclear on the subject.

On a milling machine there are (typically) three axes of movement: table left/right and forward/backwards, and head (or quill or knee) up/down. A Digital Read Out (DRO) labels those axes X, Y and Z. X for left/right, Y for forwards/backwards and Z for up/down. This makes a lot of sense if you think of a graph laid in the table as the DRO axes all agree with the nomenclature for a graph's axes.

But with a lathe it all goes askew. On the DRO the Y axis is the main left/right movement along the bed, and X is the cross slide into and away from the rotating work. Why is it not the other way round to match our piece of graph paper?

Someone, or some organisation, or company presumably set these labels when DROs became available, and was this in the 1960s? Or had machine tools already been given axis labels earlier in the 20th century?

I have tolerated this for many years but feel it is finally time to see if anyone knows who labelled the machines' axes? and why? For extra amusement we could discuss the polarity of the axes (plus and minus directions) but I won't complicate things.

Norm

Yes definitely no clip-ons at our ages ! But rear-sets and straight bars, or a slight rise, work well together.

There is normally a lot of space under an alloy Manx tank to clear the DOHC cambox. You might have to check how a wideline Manx tank fits on the Atlas top frame rails though.

The short, open pipes might be 'interesting'. Are you considering any muting?

Hopper, I do like that creation of a Harley engine squeezed into the Dommie frame. Should give decent cycle parts that handle and stop well and will look very nice with the Manx-like seat (and tank?). I guess the engine is about 50bhp but with the torque of a tank?

Did the frame have to be stretched at all? You have just had to reverse the rear wheel drive side I see.

Well done

Norm

Very good question Mike because, as you say, writers often refer to quenching once the item reaches its desired tempering colour. Quenching a red hot steel to lock the crystals in their arranged shape is clearly important; that is how to lock in hardening. But I have always seen tempering as a stress-relieving, or crystal relaxation process, and once achieved there is nothing to lock as they will not continue rearranging as they cool to room temperature.

When tempering in big ovens, for longer times, the material is taken out or it cools in the switched off oven. But I agree that when doing a 'quickie' hand temper over a flame the use of an oil dip quench does the job of definitely stopping the heating.

Are you referring to the early machines from ARC Euro, that many of us bought as a first mill, myself included?

Your interest suggests that you might be buying an older one? There are several webpages that discussed them in the past.

Norm

Edited By norm norton on 03/01/2023 11:29:08

If you mill out as much as is reasonable from the steel leaves, then the assembled spring has half the spring rate of the solid version. I have just finished the job making a set for my Black 5.

Norm

I agree with Jeff in that a perfectly made seat should not need the ball to be tapped in. The problem is that you need a perfectly round hole that is dead square to the flat face portion. That means all done in one stage on the lathe and a reamed hole.

Yes, use stainless balls but you must use a 'throw away' steel one to tap the seat. There is no harm in striking a small tap. Use the balls and springs supplied by Polly.

You can't really burnish the seat because it is deep down inside the upper body.

The Gordon Smith designs should work superbly because, in the few designs of his that I have tried on 5" models, he has got the chamber in which the ball and guide sits just right so that coupled with the spring pressure they are a quiet and gentle semi-pop. Take care to get the ball seated in its guide EXACTLY to the depth specified.

Silver solder it. All the Loctites will soften at the temperature of pressurised steam, despite the temperature claims, and slowly fail.

I was aware that 'wall warts' was an American term and something to do with power supplies sitting in wall plugs, but are the letters W,A,R and T an acronym? or does it just mean a ugly lump sticking on the wall? If the latter then the term is best left on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.

Thomas

If the fire creates many fine pieces of unburnt material, and there is a strong draught carrying these products into the tubes, then those tubes risk being blocked.

Number one: do not poke or 'riddle' the fire bed as this will raise bits and pieces. Contentious subject as some drivers love to poke about while other wise heads will NEVER use a poker in three hours of steaming.

Number two: ensure there is only just enough blast from the exhaust to keep the steam production sufficient for running. If you see any sparks from the chimney the blast is too severe.

I don't disagree that Welsh Steam Coal is a lovely material but you should be able to steam well on anthracite grains (grains are smallest, then beans, then nuts)

Norm

Edited By norm norton on 13/06/2022 21:16:09

Yes you are right Nigel, boilers can be approved, but the stress calculations are a science that only some seem to enjoy.

Two kW of fire energy has to get through perhaps only 1% or 2% efficiency so it might be only 20 watts of engine power?

Edited By norm norton on 27/05/2022 15:58:23

I think you would have success with a 2.5" or 3" diameter fire tube inside a 5" Cornish style boiler tube. The grate could then support a 2" x 4" firebed which would produce more than a couple of kilowatts if 1" deep AND supported by an adequate draught. That should generate enough steam for a 2" stroke mill engine, perhaps bigger? Just my 'guesstimates' from running small steam locomotives.

I would use a compressed air blower jet, up the chimney, to start and stabilise the fire until there was enough steam to take over.

The problem will be getting a new design of boiler approved for use in public, but there is little doubt you could make a massively strong boiler from two tubes and two end plates.

Sounds good Bob. You will have more than adequate pipe sizes as I use only 1/32" larger for No4 24oz injectors. You should find that you will only need a weak dribble of free flowing water before you turn the steam on as the injector will suck like mad and get all the water it wants. The thing to watch is any trace of air leak in that water feed because the suction will pull in any air and then the injector will misbehave.