Different types of copper boiler tube

For teh curious, Screwfix and B&Q both state that their copper tube is to EN1057.

"7.1 Composition
The composition shall conform to the following requirements:
Cu + Ag: min. 99,90 %;
0,015 % ≤ P ≤ 0,040 %.
This copper grade is designated either Cu-DHP or CW024A."

There is an array of tests applied ona sample basis including a pressure test. 35 bar for tube up to 54mm diameter (nearly 500 psi).

Neil

Baz. The last lot of metal I purchased stated the section and the Material on both the delivery note and the Invoice (receipt) which I think is as good as a c of c, but if you want to go down the route of that might not be the right paper you will end up at PMI as many people will not accept mill certs nowadays in the commercial world.

The original point being argued was the contention that the boiler inspector does not need to check the material, I pasted the section where i think it shows the boiler inspector seems to know what he is doing.

Steve

Baz,

with respect your last post was not very well thought out. i totally agree with S.D.L. (steve), and on my receipts it states eg C106 grade copper seamless tube etc... or PB1 phos bronze etc. rather than just the price and date.

if i produced a receipt from B & Q or ebay i know what my own club boiler inspector would say to me!

cheers,

julian

If you look at my last posting, read para 2, I think C106 comes in this type of copper, and this is what is required, unless you are going to soft solder the boiler, heating domestic copper to brazing heat does not seem to be too good for it, Plumbers braze it! Ian S C

Not 100% sure whether Fizzy has a satisfactory answer to his original question yet.

Just to help muddy the waters - from my background (work), the only reason you are able to use certificates and receipts - whatever - is that the company has a QA department.

Phil H

Someone above asked about model boiler failures. I beleive there have been two documented in the Model Engineer over the years, although I don't have the precise references. One was a locomotive boiler which failed due to a build up of lime in the boiler, leading to local overheating of the plates. I think that might have been sometime during the eighties.

The other was a boiler in a model boat, which went quite spectularly in one of the London parks about 1906 or so. I beleive the boat sank. The construction in that case was quite inadequate.

John

hi john,

there are unfortunately far more than those 2 you quoted. arnold thorp of 'O' ring fame quoted a 5"g B1 i think that split its boiler barrel seam. ive seen firebox crowns wrecked, and all sorts of other horrors. i was given in lieu of rebuilding a loco for a fellow club member a new PANSY boiler. it passed a hydraulic test but on closer examination was so badly made i cut it up for scrap and all the silver soldered joints on the inner firebox wrapper and throatplate joint had cracked and had been run over with soft solder. it was lethal. got £68 for it which as i was originally offered £500 for rebuilding my mate's loco in the mid 1990s turned out to be a very bad deal!

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 13/03/2014 22:41:07

None of the failures listed in the above two posts seem to mention any fault with the copper used, they all relate to poor construction or boiler management. Anyone heard of failure due to the wrong type of copper used?

j

hi jason,

on the above PANSY boiler, although never steamed, the copper in the inner steam dome had laminated. it was in any event far too thin for my liking and was i presume plumbing grade stuff.

cheers,

julian

Guys,

I think that if you pick up some tube from B&Q quoted by them as EN1057 - it is perfectly ok. EN1057 clearly states seamless tube and is linked back to the original BS for 'proper' copper tube.

Phil H

hi Phil,

i dont agree!

there are various types of EN1057, and you could quite easily be buying thinner stuff than required for miniature loco boiler work! best to buy the proper stuff from one of the reputable ME suppliers.

cheers,

julian

Julian,

You obviously need to buy from the correct table but that same rule applies from any supplier. My point is that this stuff about the 'wrong' material - I suspect it is a myth.

Phil H

Hi I've just registered and it seems odd that I am also a Phil H,

I appreciate that this thread is a few months old but I think I have something to contribute.

I'm in the process of picking up model engineering after many years of building a Minnie which is all but complete. My aim is to finally build the boiler that was first attempted in 1973, there was a lot less information about then. I eventually bought a boiler from AJ Reeves (then in Moseley Birmingham - for which I no longer have the receipt) to overcome a stalled start. I will be joining my local ME society to get oversight of the boiler build, and meet like minded people, but for now, I am doing all the research to sort out a process for building my boiler, making various test pieces to confirm the methods before committing to the actual expensive build.

This lead me to your forum as I was searching for boiler tubes; having <> 20m of 10mm tube in my possession stamped "EN1057 (Kitemark) Streamline GB / Blue Label 10*0.7mm" & date stamped 3/09. The tube was purchased from Screwfix to relocate a radiator (I can locate the receipt in my old accounts). Being an ex BSI Assessor, I took the time to look-up the Blue Label spec. associated with the tube from Mueller Industries - this link (from Google) is actually a Jewson document - link http://assets.jewson.co.uk/product-docs/12341/12341.pdf, but refers to this tube - no doubt supplied to numerous plumbers merchants. Now this document appears to confirm Neil's post as the correct material - seamless 0.7mm wall CW024A tube. I took a sample of the tube, flattened it and it checked out at 0.7mm or 0.0275" or all but 22swg (0.028" as required by the drawings. Being slightly larger than 3/8" I've made a simple reducing tool to form a short 3/8" diameter step at the end of a10mm tube, this eliminates reducing the wall thickness of the 3/8" 22swg tube to make a step to stop the tubes falling through partially reamed holes in the plate whilst silver soldering, I can simply ream the holes 3/8". I'm now at a loss as to how to proceed. If I buy tube it will be the same stuff as I have in my loft gathering dust, but will it have stamped identification on it?

PJH