Efficient Workshop Heating

Bikepete,

its is indeed a Cryptocurrency generator - but not Bitcoin, since that's all ASIC based now and regular end user hardware can no longer compete (not to mention they've just had hundreds of thousands of pounds hacked/stolen......)

I'm thinking Litecoin, since it specifically has "proof of work" so theses specialised ASIC machines can't take over - they add no value to the market, the only people who really made money where those selling the ASIC cards for $1000+ and now they've destroyed that makets value, they'll start work on the next, and when they finally figure out how to mine Litecoin via ASIC, I'll switch to something else since my hardware (unlike ASIC) won't be fixed to mining one code

- this is essentially cloud computing in reverse, end users, rent out their processing power for £££'s per successfully computed "block" - it's just not been commercialised yet, it wont be long before Google or someone takes this platform and makes real money out of it.

Back last year someone assesed the computing power of the BitCoin community, and if you took the top 500 super computers in the world, and merged their processing power together, the BitCoin community had 256 times more processing power....... imagine if we put that towards cancer research, in 2 days it could handle a workload that would take 2 years or so on the so called "super computers"

** edit, when I say real value, I mean directly paying out in $ or £, right now, they pay in "Litecoins" or "BitCoins" - and these can be sold and traded for real items, or just used as currency on some sites to buy things rather than PayPal or google wallet for example. 

Edited By Russ B on 25/02/2014 14:21:49

Ok, the components

Motherboard = Asus M5A78l-m/USB3 - because I have one in my loft, it has 2 PCIe lane, a x16, and an x1 which I will need a x1 to x16 ribbon + power supply to use - thus this system can handle 2 cards

CPU = AMD FX4100 - because I have one in my loft, I may disable 2 or 3 of its cores to save power (this won't be used due its very poor £ per watt ratio)

memory, 8gb of DDR3l (l = low power) - may drop to 1 or 2 gb, again to save power

PSU = 800w 90+ psu (this will need to be upgraded if I got for more than 3 cards)

GPGPU's doing all the work, and creating all the heat, will be AMD Radeon 6950's (just one or 2 to start with) as they're profit/energy consumption is just under 1:1 so they go cheap as the cryptocurrency community isn't interested in them anymore.

running CGminer from USB to further reduce power consumption (no hdd to run, no dvd, no wifi etc.)

the system with two cards will draw about 550-600w at the wall due to inefficiencies and the cards will put out around 400-440w of heat (1320 BTU/h) so over say a 100 hour period, they will cost £8 odd in electric and at the current exchange rate, those cards would create just under £9 in 100 hours.

any inefficiencies actually leave the system as heat anyway so worst case scenario, a litecoin has nill value, and I've just run a 500-600w heater for 100 hours, that I wanted to run anyway breaking even, but wasting time. the value of the hardware will not really go down at an alarming rate so it will be worth roughly what I paid for it should I decide to sell it and buy an oil radiator! - but the truth is Cryptocurrency does have genuine value so that statement in any worst case scenario is wrong, it will offset some of my bills,

A systems performance is measured in Kh/s (kilohash) this is a 900Kh/s setup (450 per card) with each card eating 220w of electric. A new card was released in the last week that generated 245Kh/s and uses just 60w (£105 a piece, and they will be sold out before they hit the shelves just because of that)

Was Russ B speaking (writing) in tongues? As a fully paid up Luddite, I did not understand his last post. maybe the language was computerese.

Seriously, ANYTHING that oxidises a compound containing hydrogen or even just plain hydrogen, will invite the rust fairy to take up residence.

Any oxidation of hydrogen results in water, and even in vapour form, in the presence of oxygen, ferrous material starts turning to rust, or one of the other oxides of Iron.

So woodburners, paraffin (kerosene), or gas or oil heaters, keeping pigs, or chickens in there as a source of heat is out. Even human beings should be excluded, (no good standing there waiting for the shop to warm up to working temperature) since they exhale water vapour and evaporate water as perspiration.

So now you will need additional power to run the dehumidifier!

How about combining wind turbines and photovoltaic panels, (or even wave or tidal power - if you are near the sea / hydroelectric if on the banks of a river) to get low cost energy (Low cost ignoring the capital input)?

Lots of insulation is a good starting point, to retain whatever heat you can input to the shop, including heat from the motors and lights.

To offset the energy costs, make and sell something for which people are prepared to pay a silly price, and then try not to laugh too loudly as you go to the bank! But keep an eye on the market, and think up the next wheeze!

I think the OP likes the sound of his own voice. It would be a hell of a lot more straightforward to simply say - "hey, I could use the waste heat from a PC working as a shared server on the inet to help heat my workshop!"

Computer specs for servers change frequently so to publish a huge paragraph about specs is meaningless.

Or have I missed something clever?

JD

So Russ

Am I right in thinking that, in essence, your proposal is to purchase computer equipment which generates considerable heat in its operation and to utilise this heat to warm the workshop. The costs of this project - both the start-up and running costs ( plus, presumably, a contribution to a sinking fund for future equipment replacement ) would be met by "renting" the computing power of your machine to those wishing to tap into "spare processing power" via the internet?

Norman

put your handbag down JD,

The specs was for the benefit of others who might wish to follow the build, the GPGPU chosen is important since it represents an equilibrium between running cost and earnings while providing a good amount of heat at a low capital value.

Server specs have nothing to do with this, so you've missed the boat completely - this is actually the beginning of cloud computing in reverse, whereby rather than the end user paying "X" to use a computer based on a server, a company will one day pay a community cloud to compute data rather than rent or build an expensive server.

on the plus side, your summary is accurate if not complete, so you didn't miss everything.... let me finish that for you

- "hey, I could use the waste heat from a PC working as a shared server on the inet to help heat my workshop - while generating crypto currency I can sell for a profit covering the electric bill!!"

pretty much hit that nail on the head, except as of yet, it's just generating online currency, however this online currency can be sold for real money, which I find rather odd, but it is what it is.

One day, as mentioned above, companies will look to these community clouds to tackle packets of data for them that aren't latency dependant (such a medical or market research etc.)

Russ Just watched the 6 O'clock news and it says the value of Bitcoins has dropped a lot in the last 24hrs, does that mean you are now in negative equaty

J

No, but well spotted, I've specifically avoided BitCoins

LiteCoin (for now) can only be most efficiently mined on consumer grade hardware - so no stock crash, see https://litecoin.org/ for the brief summary,

Since I will sell my stock monthly, the maximum I could crash would be £8-10 then I'd just pick another cryptocurrency and start earning that one.

I'll be part of a pool, since the winnings are more frequent, and there are many other benefits, this is the one I'll go with as they tick all the boxes for me https://crypto-coin-pool.com/

Russ, for those that don't have the required hardware in their loft like yourself what would be the current purchase price so we can see how long it would take to get our money back on the initial purchase before we could earn any money

And for the less computer minded you could try the Ikea Tea Light method, only 8p a day

J

Edited By JasonB on 25/02/2014 19:06:08

So big users who needs loads of cloud computing are going to use some man in a shed ?

And pay with junkcoin ™ ? No doubt you will issue a VAT receipt ?

And they will trust you with this data ?

Think I'll stick with me woodburner which contrary to what Howard says doesn't generate any rust and this in an uninsulated workshop but I do have it on every day [ I need to to get down the pile of wood ] so it never drops below dew point.

Once you get a few tonnes of machinery up to temp it takes a lot of cooling down.

New skip coming in the morning all being well.

Edited By John Stevenson on 25/02/2014 19:10:44

I see your point but It's encrypted, plus if a hacker wanted your data, he'd have it in a fraction of a second, just like a real life break in, security doesn't stop attackers, it just slows them down, and in the computer world, things happen in less than nanoseconds to start with. If your on your wifi at home, a hacker could be sat watching everything you do, you'd never know he was there, he's just watching all that data go back and forth.

J, it looks good but think of the moisture! I think you'd need more than a few to match the BTU's of this computers clean dry heat

Humm, I think I will stick with JS, my wood/charcoal burner is not a rust producer and works well. And I can understand it, whereas, computers, bitecoins, litecoins, a very very grey unfathomed area

Chris

Russ,

have you calculated the UPS and backup generator in the sums to protect your clients data ?

That might stuff your break even point up a tad ?

Well Russ

| " a hacker could be sat watching everything you do, you'd never know he was there, he's just watching all that data go back and forth. "

.... he would be very bored if he was sat there watching me!

N

Fully understand, and I'm envious to be honest, a stove is really what I want, although the wood wouldn't be free I just love stoves, I find splitting logs and building the fire therapeutic in a primevil sort of way!

I live in a residential area, so a ground floor height chimney won't go down to well - nor will a 5 metre stack =)

packets are distributed by the central system (https://crypto-coin-pool.com/) and its not uncommon for them to be wrong anyway when they return, they simply get sent out again for re-computing, the system runs from USB, it can be turned off and on at any time, it wont start where it left off, it will just request another packet and off it goes again - it can be run on a thermostat just turning on and off mid activity, no trouble.

(keep trying )

I just prefer to use a dehumidifier, I get a dry workshop and the heat it gives out as a process of its operation is a benefit.

It uses 250 watts when on load and runs for 10 hours a day, 7 of which are on the 'night rate' (economy seven).

Real electronic technology isn't specifically about personal computers or even ASICs.

Check out Ben Krasnow on "the tube".

He's built an electron microscope, on his Bridgeport, in his shed.

I think he got a really good job (and a respectable, open, future - with possibilities) with Valve through that project.

Valve..... now that's a commercial idea we could use in the U.K.

I think it's sad that electronic technology in the UK is assumed to be PC's, iPhones and eChuff.

I don't think it amusing, and it's definitely not worth bragging about.

As an aside, it is my opinion that someone like Burt Rutan, simply could not exist in the UK.

It is exactly this which I am attempting (but probably failing) to pinpoint.

Edited By Andy Ash on 25/02/2014 21:18:30