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Living with the digital copies

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David Clark 105/06/2011 21:33:08
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Hi Lester
I am not involved with creating the digital issues any more than I am involved with printing the paper copies.
I have said I will talk to the office on Monday but what the result will be I don't know.
 
regards David
 
Lester Caine06/06/2011 07:23:35
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David - do you realise how silly that sounds?
Rewording it ... "I just produce the content - it's not my problem if the publishers can't print it." Add the statement on Advertiser copy - "We are not responsible for the quality of the art work provided." Then the printer's get out clause - "we just print what you provide."
 
So I ask again, WHO is responsible for reproducing the content such as the example I've shown above? Is the original that bad? What was supplied to the publishers? Why did no one say "We can't print that" So are you happy that you signed off on editorial content that is suitable for publication? In practice did ANYBODY look at what was actually being printed?
 
While you are talking to the office, who's responsibility is it that the front cover says 68 pages, but the printers only produced 64? ( I think I've seen 3 recent copies with that problem ) and also who decides to include A2 inserts that the current Digital copy can't reproduce?
John Stevenson06/06/2011 09:11:56
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Missing 4 pages are the questionnaire, better fill it in, you have paid for it.
 
One thing that strikes me over the digital issues I hadn't thought about before as I get paper and the digital's are thrown in so can't complain.
 
However if you are buying JUST the digital issue and can't read it then surely that's a breach of contract - the usual "Not fit for purpose "
 
John S.
Lester Caine06/06/2011 09:32:50
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Posted by John Stevenson on 06/06/2011 09:11:56:
Missing 4 pages are the questionnaire, better fill it in, you have paid for it.
 
One thing that strikes me over the digital issues I hadn't thought about before as I get paper and the digital's are thrown in so can't complain.
 
However if you are buying JUST the digital issue and can't read it then surely that's a breach of contract - the usual "Not fit for purpose "
 
This on line editor is crap ... One can't in line answers to quotes! Why is progress always backwards
 
I've not seen a questionnaire, and yes I've dropped the paper copy. ALL of the other mags I have followed for years are now available on CD or electronically so the paper copies have gone in the recycling. I'm just left with 14 foot of shelf space taken up by ME and MEW ... and I'm slowly scanning what I want to keep out of them - at a suitable resolution.
 
David Clark 106/06/2011 10:22:20
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Hi There
Some pages are not numbered but are still counted in the 68.
regards David
 
David Clark 106/06/2011 10:35:45
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Hi There
I have talked to the office.
They are looking into print quality and printing multiple pages.
regards David
 
David Clark 106/06/2011 14:21:53
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10 articles		Reply as received from the office
As digital editions they are not geared towards being printed as we want to keep the file size down so that they load quickly on the web, we do however still offer the ability to print out the pages if the customers so wish. We are looking in to why they cannot print the entire issue or feature and only one page at a time.

The whole point at the end of the day is that they are digital. We are working on a higher resolution currently which will affect the new issues but unfortunately will not work for the archive issues. There is software currently being tested and we hope to have these live within the next month.
regards David
Lester Caine06/06/2011 15:04:54
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'There is software currently being tested' just begs the question - why do we need new software? Acrobat reader just works, downloads in the background, is available on Linux and Mac as well as Windows, and will also quite happily handle horizontal and vertical pages of any size which would be nice for A2 and A3 spreads. It provides a nice thumbnail view down the side to navigate with. All we need is a good quality pdf file to view?
David Clark 106/06/2011 16:06:35
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Hi There
I am just relaying the message.
regards David
keithmart06/06/2011 16:54:51
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Hi


Quote:I am just relaying the message.


I appreciate that David , but if I want to build something from an old copy, and cannot read the drawing, the digital archive is not a lot of use is it!


Who should we be emailing to put this point across, and hopefully get something done?

Best Regards

Keith

Leeds UK

Gray6206/06/2011 17:11:54
1058 forum posts
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Not a poke at you DC1 as I know you are the middle man here.
But for the publishers to say ' We are looking in to why they cannot print the entire issue or feature and only one page at a time.' ??
 
As regards the print quality, if it is readable on screen, then the same quality should be available in the downloaded copy. If it is not readable on screen, then they need to up the resolution at which they scan the images into pdf for presentation.
 
I do hope that the new software under test improves the situation, If it does, then I think they should undertake to improve the archives as well, I accept that with some of the very old archives this will not be as succesful as more recent issues but, I am sure there is something that can be done.
 
How about an appeal to owners of older issues to submit Hi Res scanned PDF's of their magazines, maybe under the incentive of a reduced digital subscription for a period.
 
I for one would be happy to scan any issues that I have and submit them as PDF's
 
regards
 
Graeme
harold06/06/2011 19:59:17
35 forum posts
When I first started reading stuff about model engineering / metalwork etc (prompted by the need to mend one of SWMBO's telescopes), it became apparent that dimensioned diagrams are pretty much the heart of any published project. In the early digital editions these diagrams are almost illegible; in the printouts they are literally illegible.
 
So, given that the essential feature of the digital editions is broken, shouldn't somebody at the magazine publisher take ownership of this problem and mend it?
 
I think so.
 
Regards,
 
John
Steambuff06/06/2011 20:44:09
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Quote <<< As digital editions they are not geared towards being printed >>>
 
Bull***t
 
Are we then expected to move our PC's and Monitors into the workshop whenever we want to build anything using the drawings???
 
I Subscribe to other publications digitally and their print-outs are as good as the printed copy ..... This is all we are asking for. (Yes it would be nice to print multiple pages at a time ... but lets sort out the quality first)
 
Dave
 
Pat06/06/2011 20:58:18
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Hi Folks
I doubt David Clark will be able to get any sense out of the current publisher. There is an obvious conflict of interest. David puts in a lot of effort and has to put up with a load of flak but currently relies on a printer to arrange both electronic and paper distribution.
 
The printer has a business earns its money from printing and distribution of a number of minority interest magazines. Electronic distribution requires no print run or distribution organisation and could (is probably) seen as a threat to the continued existence of the print and distribute model.
 
My question is who owns the copy right to the magazine that David has produced each month?
 
If as I fear it is the Publishing house that owns the copy right.  Then that explains some if not all of the problem with the image quality and the lack of proper integrated indexing and search facilities on the current electronic repository.
 
In recent years PDF files have become the standard despite the parochial stance taken by Adobe to keep the format as a proprietary one. They lost that battle and now PDF files have effectively become universal although some of the better party tricks are still Adobe province. The moral here is if you can't compete users will find a way or vote with their feet and or wallets. A similar situation exists with our national papers all of which are going digital. The rest of the publishing world has or is in the process of becoming digitally distributed and that distribution has developed means of extracting real money from the readers as well as hindering pirate copying. Further more a similar argument applies to ditching the paper copy and distributing on CD which has been the route some publishers have taken. 
 
From this rant you can guess I am of the opinion that MEW has to go electronic or face extinction. There are other sources of both projects and information. That said can I have my copy on water proof paper so I can read it in the bath and while you are about it make it oil proof as well!Good luck David - I am glad I have recently retired from a job that required both paper and electronic copy even when it was obvious that the paper copy was never used. The customers when questioned admitted to it being a legacy from the days of floppy disks and their high failure rate. Playing 'piggy in the middle' between customers and publishing requirements is not a bundle of laughs and IMOH you deserve credit for getting the magazine out each month.
 
Regards - Pat

Edited By Pat on 06/06/2011 21:01:56

Edited By Pat on 06/06/2011 21:02:26

Gone Away06/06/2011 22:00:33
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Posted by Pat on 06/06/2011 20:58:18:
................. The rest of the publishing world has or is in the process of becoming digitally distributed and that distribution has developed means of extracting real money from the readers as well as hindering pirate copying.
From this rant you can guess I am of the opinion that MEW has to go electronic or face extinction.

That seems to be based on the assumption that the impetus for replacing hard copy with digitally publishing editions is coming from the readership.
 
My own opinion is that it's just the reverse and it's being foisted on the readership in spite of their desires not because of them. It's coming from publishers who sense that they can retain a bigger slice of the pie by eliminating the printing costs .... the old bottom line in other words.
 
Yes, there is some demand for digital editions in addition to regular printed versions but virtually everyone I've ever discussed this with over several years has voiced a dislike of "screen reading" as a regular habit whether it be books, magazines or newspapers. Book publishers have been trying for years and still have only a tiny penetration notwithstanding the hype over the current crop of e-readers .....much of that due more to a desire, in some quarters, to have the latest and greatest electronics than any real desire or need to read books that way.
 
Digital publishing may work tolerably well in a few situations but I doubt that ME/MEW (of all publications) are two of them. I don't think they'll "face extinction" any time soon on that basis.
 
[ On a personal level, it's true that I have dropped the printed edition of MEW and settled for the digital version. However, that's not because I prefer it - I certainly don't - it's rather a combination of the high price in Canada for the paper edition combined with a (personal) unhappiness of the content/format of the magazine lately. If the magazine was the way it used to be some years ago I would probably buy the printed version despite the high cost; likewise if the cost in Canada was reasonable I would probably buy it even with the current typical content. ]
David Clark 107/06/2011 08:18:40
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Hi There
The digital editions are due to customer demand.
If we did it to make money would we give away digital editions to paper subscribers?
I don't think so.
regards David
 
Gone Away07/06/2011 14:19:44
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Which suggests that what demand there is (at MEW/ME), is for a digital edition in addition to the hardcopy version not as a replacement .... precisely my point with magazines such as MEW/ME.
 
My response was clearly in relation to Pat's comment "The rest of the publishing world ...." The publications that Pat mentioned - that seem to be rapidly proceeding down the road of "digital only" - are doing so because they predict higher profits (as long as they can eliminate the print version entirely) and feel that, in their arenas, they can get away with it despite the preferences of their readership.
 
Whether anyone can make (standalone) acceptable profit from a digital edition while also running a print edition is an interesting question. It would, I'm sure, require excellent quality of the digital edition though.
Pat07/06/2011 16:01:42
94 forum posts
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Hi Folks
 
Have you seen this:
 
 
This is a sample copy of the American Digital Machinist and shows what can be achieved.
 
Good luck David in trying to move the publishing people into the 21st centenary. This magazine appears to be moving towards a digital distribution using 'digital.turn-page' software and is the first of that groups publications to take the plunge.
 
Regards - Pat
David Clark 107/06/2011 16:14:22
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Hi There
Two problems
Printing appears disabled.
It is a CNC magazine so of no interest to model engineers.
regards David
 
David Clark 107/06/2011 16:24:48
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3357 forum posts
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Hi There
I just tried to order a digital copy.
No printing at all is allowed.
Not even poor printing.
Not a lot of use.

Please understand that although you will be able to receive the digital version for a low price anywhere in the world, it is a read only version (no downloading or printing), through your internet browser. Because of these limitations, the digital version is offered at a reduced price.
 
 
regards David
 
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