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Comments on the Exhibition

Some thoughts three weeks on

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David Clark 1	20/12/2010 12:32:15
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi Peter Where does that leave the youngsters? They have to start somewhere and cardboard, paper, glue and scissors is where they start in school. It does not matter what you make it from, If it is a model, it is model engineering. Also, regarding model engineering. If a model engineer makes it in his workshop, it is model engineering. regards David
Geoff Sheppard	20/12/2010 12:39:03
80 forum posts 1 photos	The science of engineering encompasses the use of all forms of material, not just metallics (remember Brunel's wonderful wooden railway structures?). If we insist that metals are the only appropriate materials for model engineering, we shall eventually run out of prototypes to model or, rather, be stuck in the Victorian age. There is increasing use of non-metallics for the construction of major components in the aeronautical and automotive field and with the rapidly increasing price of metals, research is likely to be concentrated in this area. Modern rapid prototyping using non-metallics is becoming ever more simplified and akin to model engineering in its more advanced forms. I have just been reading a fascinating paper on polymer solid deposition manufacturing which, it seems, can produce multi-part assemblies to high degrees of accuracy, with no conventional manufacturing involved. How shall we produce small scale versions of these in fifty years time? What about ceramic i.c. engine block/crancase structures? Makes you think, doesn't it? Or are we stuck with making steam engines for ever? Best wishes Geoff
Terryd	20/12/2010 13:01:52
1946 forum posts 179 photos	Hi Kwil, If we wish to be pedantic I think that this fits our model engineering best definition best: "A scale model is a physical model, a representation or copy of an object that is larger or smaller than the actual size of the object, which seeks to maintain the relative proportions (the scale factor) of the physical size of the original object. Very often the scale model is smaller than the original and used as a guide to making the object in full size. Scale models are built or collected for many reasons." Wikipedia BTW I love to see the clocks at the exhibition and wonder at them, but models? - mostly, no. I have seen some lovely scale models of medieval clocks though. T
Terryd	20/12/2010 13:08:34
1946 forum posts 179 photos	Hi David and Geoff, I agree entirely, Making things out of card, plastics etc is a form of rapid prototyping and involves intricate measuring, shaping, cutting and trimming parts to fit and usually move. This is especially useful in schools where traditional teaching methods take years for basic concepts to be taught whereas looking at those youngsters at the exhibition they were taking advanced concepts to high level without taking 4 years to build something which may or may not work at the end of it all. I wonder which is the better way of using their hour a week workshop time? and are those models not of value? Please don't use the term 'Blue Peter methods' in a derogatory way, there is a lot of value in encouraging young people and they thrive on success. Best regards Terry Edited By Terryd on 20/12/2010 13:10:03
Nicholas Farr	20/12/2010 13:37:44
3988 forum posts 1799 photos	Hi, I agree with Terry, using "Blue Peter" in a belittling or non achiving way is unreasonable. Over the years it has given many younger people inspiration to learn and make things, and to use every day household materials to produce items they can be proud of. I myself used to enjoy waching it, especially the making things bit. Regards Nick. Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/12/2010 13:38:50
Stub Mandrel	20/12/2010 14:02:25
4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles	I got a 'Blue Peter Badge' for my entry in their Design a Train of the Future competition. I recall that it drew it on asheet of blue Basildon Bond. Neil
Geoff Sheppard	20/12/2010 14:16:03
80 forum posts 1 photos	Blue Basildon Bond? - there's posh!
Nicholas Farr	20/12/2010 14:19:18
3988 forum posts 1799 photos	Hi, you were allowed Basildon Bond! let alone Blue? Rgards Nick.
WALLACE	20/12/2010 14:28:26
304 forum posts 17 photos	I agree toally with Peter's first post. Good exhibition if you want to look at lathes, buy bits for your Myfords etc - but not really somewhere I'd want to take the kids to. Where were the live steam engines giving rides, the tethered aeroplanes whizzing overhead ? As to the trade guys breaking even, I can't imagine a large show with all sorts of models, planes, boats, radio controlled, working sream engines etc etc etc wouldn't be an absolute goldmine for all that present buying just a few weeks before Christmas. I can't see the argument that the show should just be for 'engineered' items- a show that appeals to a broader spectrum of 'Joe Public' will do a lot better at introducing new people to the hobby as opposed to a marganalised niche exhibition. W. Edited By WALLACE on 20/12/2010 14:54:52
Steve Garnett	20/12/2010 15:46:11
837 forum posts 27 photos	Posted by WALLACE on 20/12/2010 14:28:26: Where were the live steam engines giving rides, the tethered aeroplanes whizzing overhead ? The live steam engines were outside where they belonged when I looked! Didn't see any tethered planes though. And there were loads of absolutely fascinating Stirling engines working too. ******************************************************** As far as defining what this is all about, I agree entirely with David. One of the accepted definitions of 'model' is that it's a standard to be imitated - another is that models are simply representative forms of something. I mean it's called Model Engineering, not Scale Model Engineering, isn't it? And I suspect that this may have been no accident... Engineering in this context means to design, plan and construct. It comes via France from the Latin ingenium, meaning skill, or talent. It doesn't reference particular materials, and if an engineer wants to model something in cardboard to see how it fits, or whatever, then why the hell not? I mean, who ever claimed that all models have to be functional in every sense of the term? If you don't like, or are not attracted to something in the show, then simply don't visit the stand. But why slag these things off? The people making them are just as entitled to make what they like as we are. And they are also presumably providing revenue as well. As usual, I can see absolutely no grounds whatsoever for this griping. It was an interesting show, but I did note that although I arrived at the same time on the Friday as the previous year, there was nothing like the size of crowd queueing for the door, so presumably attendance was down a bit. Which presumably reflects the current financial situation somewhat. Good SMEE presentation on plastics in engineering, too - worth it for that alone as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and the ploughing engine near the entrance was excellent! Edited By Steve Garnett on 20/12/2010 15:46:48
David Clark 1	20/12/2010 16:22:53
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There The queue was a bit down at the start but visitors soon picked. Saturday was busier than usual, I think people may have been waiting for the better weather. regards David
Richard Parsons	20/12/2010 17:40:48
645 forum posts 33 photos	Any one remember 'Micromodels' for 1/3d you could buy and make several locomotives - using your worhshop in a cigar box-
V8Eng	20/12/2010 19:02:38
1826 forum posts 1 photos	Micromodels, oh how that takes me back! Hope the following comments are not just my memory playing tricks (an age thing): They were in something like a stiff envelope and the cover illustrations were amazing, tempting us to expect great things. My thoughts are of tiny fiddly cut out parts, and trying to stick them together with the glues available at the time was an art in itself, but if everything worked out they were really rather impressive little objects. I was proud of the few sucessful ones I made, but they got lost in a house move decades ago, expect they got chucked out with the cardboard and old newspapers. I do remember seeing a box of these kits for sale on a Sandown dealers stand a few years ago, but it might have been at the much missed Symposium rather than the ME exhibition. P.S. we did enjoy the recent Sandown ME exhibition, nice range of models upstairs, good for inspiration, and jealousy! As to the comments on here about cardboard or plastics: remember we all started somewhere, in my case it was things like Micro models, Meccano and Keil Craft rubber powered aeroplane kits. Do not be quick to dismiss peoples interests, which might progress in time to become large scale Traction Engines or such like. Edited By V8Eng on 20/12/2010 19:24:34
David Clark 1	20/12/2010 21:08:51
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There Do you really want tethered aircraft whizzing around? If so, I am sure it can be arranged. I do hear a lot of complaints about another exhibition with noisy aircraft and tanks all over the place. regards David
Steve Garnett	20/12/2010 21:27:52
837 forum posts 27 photos	Posted by David Clark 1 on 20/12/2010 21:08:51: Do you really want tethered aircraft whizzing around? Personally, no. I'm more interested in what people have done when they built models, and even something as slow as a running model steam engine is better viewed whilst it's stationary - well certainly from a modelling point of view. (I self-moderated the rest of this post!) Edited By Steve Garnett on 20/12/2010 21:30:30
Geoff Sheppard	20/12/2010 21:33:32
80 forum posts 1 photos	Had to go digging a bit, but I knew they were there, somewhere. Micromodels Set MII (Princess Coronation and West Country) Price 2s 6d including Purchase Tax and Set P.G.VII (The Great Bear, Midland Compound and Duke). Still not opened. Must get round to making them up, sometime. Then on to rubber powered aircraft. That's where model engineering used to start. We need the modern equivalent. Regards, Geoff
Terryd	20/12/2010 21:42:01
1946 forum posts 179 photos	Hi Geoff, where would we be without Keil Kraft All that precision cutting and gluing and pasting and doping, Brings back real memories - Nostalgia ain't what it used to be Regards and seasons greetings, Terry Edited By Terryd on 20/12/2010 21:44:16
Ramon Wilson	20/12/2010 21:51:37
1655 forum posts 617 photos	I didn't go to the exhibition but have been to many since my first way back around 1969-'70 held then at Seymour Hall so feel it's reasonably justifiable to make a comment on this 'type of exhibits' discussion. That first show was one where the aircraft were whizzing around, slot cars too on an enormous purpose built four lan track. The main hall and side rooms were truly packed with an incredible amount of 'model making'. It was the first time I had seen anything like it and it left me with an impression that has lasted to this day as far as exhibitions go and one I have tried to implement when it has been required. That is - try to cater for as many interests as possible. Someone will like those small figures - I know I did - or the skill of the plastic modeller too - just as well as to stand in awe at a magnificent steam loco or traction engine. Model ships have always played a big part in ME shows and indeed were covered quite often in the ME mag. I well remember at that first exhibition an absolutely beautiful model boat - Patricia of Pulroon - the build of which was covered in ME. The gradual advent of many scale working model ship kits where much is done for the builder in moulded hulls and cast fittings has done much to include those with less skills and equipment than some 'model engineers' and long so it should remain - would we really not want to include these models or builders? I don't think we would. Despite my resurgence of interest in machining I still love making plastic models on occasion and built a working power model boat last year. Both have 'engineered parts' though to be fair the plastic models could hardly be called 'model engineering' but the time and effort and different skills that those that participate in other branches should not be readilly dismissed Though I would like to see it I don't suppose we will ever see the likes of the Seymour Hall and early Wembley shows again. Remember some of them ran for some eight days - think of the cost of that - but the move to Wembley seemed to herald the very slow decline particularly of traders - more cost - less profit - less inclination to attend - less visitors etc. Several previous posts have summed it up - travel - distance - cost (both to the trader and the public) the main factors and to exhibit? well that's a holiday in the area for the period or a double visit - economics again? Seeing it from different sides of modelling I agree it could be construed as a biased opinion but for me it's very much 'live and let live' and take the time to enjoy what others have to offer - who knows you might have a life changine experience Seasonal greetings to all my fellow forum members and a really great modelling New Year too, whatever your interests. Regards - Ramon
David Clark 1	21/12/2010 08:34:58
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi Ramon I think you may be right. We do need a more varied amount of exhibits. I think the model engineers have become the elite and only want the best of the best engineering models. They have driven all the other disciplines away. 16mm narrow gauge is an exception, I would love to see the gauge 1 people back and the O gauge people attending. regards david
Geoff Sheppard	21/12/2010 10:29:02
80 forum posts 1 photos	David Aircraft don't need to be noisy these days. I recall that the 'stable' used to have a magazine called 'Silent Flight'. Electrics have come a long way. Perhaps Graham Ashby of RCM&E could advise. It would be nice to get the aeromodellers back. I had hoped that the superb engineered aircraft models by Alan Clark, seen at last year's exhibition, would start a new trend, but nothing appeared this time. Regards Geoff

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