Ian Parkin | 16/08/2023 17:43:36 |
![]() 1174 forum posts 303 photos | Some time ago i made a few of these as a fun thing for company electricians and a few for electrical suppliers in the sheffield area |
duncan webster | 16/08/2023 19:06:35 |
5307 forum posts 83 photos | Ian's 2000 amp fuse is what we used to start a tractor on one of the farms I worked on as a lad. The starter solenoid didn't work but a spanner across the contacts made it leap into life. This was haytiming, where everything that would move was pressed into service. One of the other tractors had to be hand cranked, not too bad if there were 2 of us as it had a decompressor, so one person would wind it up and the other could drop the decompressor at the right time. If you were on your own in was a 3 act circus involving a bit of baler twine attached to the lever. All good healthy fun, and paid for my first motorbike |
SillyOldDuffer | 16/08/2023 19:41:51 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Master of none on 16/08/2023 17:04:21:
Qualified is a term often used in manufacterer's instruction and is in my opinion, somewhat meanlingless regarding electricial installation work. ... It's not meaningless in a different way. Rather a lot of British Law is vague, not black and white, and it's left to the courts to decide what it means. Anyone likely to end up in the dock needs to think about their liability in the event of an accident. Put yourself in the position of an employer faced with: "No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work". Thinking of saving a few bob by paying a 12 year old boy to upgrade all the fuses in a 415V switch-room? If so, consider what a Judge, Jury and Insurance Company would make of your decision it was appropriate for a child to do the work. Same applies to telling apprentices and other staff to tackle jobs outside their experience: if there's an accident, you could be found responsible. Gaol, fines, bankruptcy, reputational damage etc. In this example, to avoid legal unpleasantness, employers have to be able to show that the Electricity at Work Regulations were applied responsibly. In the event of a prosecution how that's proved is down to the employer, but it helps to prepare in advance. Being able to show he employs people with paper qualifications, or relevant experience, and then provides training, suitable supervision, risk management and is health and safety aware goes a long way. An incompetent employer who used untrained staff to take ill-considered short-cuts and hasn't done anything to protect himself and his workers deserves all he gets. It's an imperfect world. A certificate proves training was undertaken, not that the holder will apply what he learned. However, in the event of an accident, the employer is off the hook, and the man who failed to follow his training is in trouble. I'm in two minds about whether or not blurry law is a good system. Doesn't help anyone who expects to be told exactly what's right and wrong in simple plain terms! Most people assume rules will be clear. Bad employers can get a good lawyer and argue the toss, often getting away with murder. Responsible employers apply it sensibly, achieving competent safe working by applying any of the many alternatives that best suit their circumstances. The assumption is most employers are responsible, and don't need to be inspected or policed. Dave Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/08/2023 19:42:17 |
Mark P. | 16/08/2023 20:57:12 |
![]() 634 forum posts 9 photos | I don't know about fuse rating but this was my electric shower in Laos! |
mark costello 1 | 16/08/2023 21:49:30 |
![]() 800 forum posts 16 photos | They wanted to encourage fast showers, with minimal water use. |
Chris Pearson 1 | 16/08/2023 21:55:01 |
189 forum posts 3 photos | Posted by Chris Crew on 16/08/2023 07:43:59:
This was all done prior to 'Part P' but I am of the understanding that these building regulations only apply to the main domestic residence, not to any out-building. Am I correct in this assumption? Not quite! The requirements for the four nations of the UK vary. Bear in mind that the supply to the house may come in through an outbuilding. New circuits and new consumer units are notifiable work, so either you pay to have the work notified personally and then tested or you employ a registered electrician (who can then notify for a couple of quid) instead. It used to be relatively easy to become a registered electrician, but since last year, in effect, you have to do an apprenticeship. |
Robert Atkinson 2 | 16/08/2023 22:08:43 |
![]() 1891 forum posts 37 photos | Meets the requirement for an isolation switch.... The person who did an EICR (inspection) on my house prior to some upgrade work put a C2 " Potentially dangerous – urgent remedial action required" "fail" on the report for not having an isolator on the shower. They also put a C2 for the live and neutral crossed (actual not colours) on the shower. Robert. |
Chris Crew | 16/08/2023 22:15:41 |
![]() 418 forum posts 15 photos | "No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work". In my opinion, this applies more to installation and testing work which needs to be carried out safely. BS7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations requires: "Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers' instructions." Would 45 years experience in the telecoms industry, some at a supervisory level, count? Admittedly, this was initially on mainly low voltage, high current dc installations, i.e multiple 6" aluminum busbars reducing to 3/4" copper busbars, in the old Strowger days, but on the later power equipment racks we connected 3-phase power at mains voltage which was then reduced to 50V dc and eventually to 12V & 5V. We tested the installations to 'company' spec. standards and our work was always inspected and checked by a Clerk of Works and later by a Quality Auditor. However, I don't think the company ever employed many or any 'qualified electricians'. There were 'incidents', not caused by me, Honest Guv! but very few and far between as far as I am aware and I did sit on the Health & Safety consultative committee for several years so we got all the site RIDDOR reports. I do hold some modest technical qualifications and did hold licenses to work on customer equipment so I would like to think I have, at least, some idea as to how to proceed when it comes to electrical work. I also accept that regulations are necessary to eliminate as far as possible the idiots who cannot realise the hazards and dangers they create but whatever the rules or law states they will always exist. BTW, I was never employed by BT but did a great deal of work for them which was always to the very highest of standards until the bean counters took over after privatisation. |
duncan webster | 16/08/2023 23:42:16 |
5307 forum posts 83 photos | Friend of mine used to install high voltage switch gear, and had all the relevant bits of paper. He wasn't qualified to work on domestic. Having said that, I wouldn't trust some of my relatives to changes a light bulb, so we do need some kind of regulation. From the preceding it sounds like we haven't got it right. |
Mark Rand | 17/08/2023 01:10:09 |
1505 forum posts 56 photos | I was a 'Competent person' according to the Wiring Regs up until Part P was enacted. I rewired my own house, did electrical wiring at work in the UK and around the world, worked unsupervised on 12kV systems at power station sites, got offered outside work. I have copies of and follow the Wiring Regs up to the 17th edition (haven't done any major new work since the 18th edition came out). Unless I shell out £400 per year or more, I'm not qualified to run a new circuit from the CU that I installed... I'm afraid that I treat Part P with the contempt that it deserves. It is a protection scam layered on top of the pre-existing quality requirements.
The same applied to our main site electrician. Qualified to maintain and install all electrical services on a 22 acre site, from 11kV down to 240V, but not qualified to do work in his own home... |
Howard Lewis | 17/08/2023 01:40:16 |
7227 forum posts 21 photos | The same applied to our main site electrician. Qualified to maintain and install all electrical services on a 22 acre site, from 11kV down to 240V, but not qualified to do work in his own home. Same situation with two friends of mine. I have electrical endorsement to HNC, and over the years, have safely done various electrical jobs at home. Years ago a LEB electrician changed the meter, but it was I who found that he had reversed the polarity, and had to get it rectified as an emergency! But, presumably we are not "competent" to fit a fuse to a 13 Anp plug! Howard
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Robert Atkinson 2 | 17/08/2023 08:02:50 |
![]() 1891 forum posts 37 photos | To be clear the people with experience almost certainly are Competent and would legally be able to do the work. The issue is when the work has to be notified. This is normally done throgh a registered body. You have to meet their requirements and pay a registration fee and annual membership fee. It's all about the money. In theory they could do it through their local council building control officer but in practice the time and cost involved make this impractical. You CAN change fuses and make minor repairs and additions in your own home but there are specific limits. Robert.
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