Best Budget 3D Cad software

I'm something of a fan of OnShape (onshape.com). You get pretty much a full professional 3D modelling tool for free.

Two drawbacks: Your designs are all public - not something that bothers me. I can deal with the embarrassment if anyone finds something I've done. And it runs in the cloud so you don't have it on your computer. Again not something that bothers me.

I've found it somewhat easier to get to grips with than other 3D design tools I've used.

Iain

Having spent a business life where we had this software package for this and that software package for that and then lost many hours of productivity with the frustrations of this not talking to that, it comes as an absolute joy to find and use a fully integrated package that does everything in one application.

If we had had Fusion 360 in those days our working lives would have been so much more focussed on designing and manufacturing our products rather than fighting the frustrations of software interoperability. When a package offers you 3D design, 2D drawing, CAM, direct to 3D printing and integrated PCB design (now with the extensive library of SnapEDA) it is an engineer's heaven and this is what Fusion 360 offers.

I have a number of friends who use the non licenced version and it completely meets their needs for hobbyist activity. For those that needed the much more advanced CAM features a timely purchase of a licence when Autodesk offer their regular 30% discount deals solved the problem.

The doubters about Cloud Storage all will no doubt be using on line banking and be comfortable with it so why worry about using it for project documentation? The option to save locally is there if the Cloud creates sleepless nights. The upside with the Cloud is that you can go to any computer anywhere in the world, load Fusion, log in and all your designs are there in your library. You can even work for a limited period without an internet connection.

Last but no means least for the new starter, is the overwhelming depth and variety of online tuition sites on YouTube. NYC CNC, Paul McWhorter, Product Design Online, Clough42, Mechanical Advantage, Lars Christensen and not least Autodesk's own training videos.

Forum users will all have their own preferred design package for 2D or 3D drawing and will rightly be proud of what they achieve with what the software allows them to do. Most will then qualify their voiced preference by adding the qualifier that they then use this other package for CAM and this other package for their PCB design and maybe gloss over the frustrations of moving their design between these additionally necessary packages.

I wonder if we are no different in this respect to my historic experiences in business. In those days my team was frustrated by a lack of software integration and how it stopped us getting our new designs to market efficiently.

Today we as hobbyists have a slightly different angle on the problem in that for many of us our remaining time to 'box' is finite. We have skills in the workshop to create our dreams albeit with eyesight fading and joints getting more aches each day. The old adage of the man on his death bed wishing he had spent less time at work and more with his family mirrors our thought of wishing we could have spent more time in the workshop making things rather than wasting it with computer and software frustrations. For me Fusion 360 has given me that freedom. It is my researched choice and it has paid off for me and others will have their own preferences and recommendations.

(I hope that last paragraph wasn't too depressing).

It is likely that the package you start with will be the one you tend to stick with such is the investment in time you will make when learning how to use it and more to the point remembering how to use it. For the new user it is therefore all the more important to make the right choice for not just what you want to do now but also where you might want to be in the future and how easy that will integrate with your initial software choice. Maybe you just want 2D drawing but could this lead to 3D modelling, 3D printing, PCB design and integration or full CNC milling, routing and lathe work ? I suggest that like me, you will easily expand into these with Fusion as your base choice.

Just for clarity I have no affiliation with Fusion or Autodesk and Fusion 360 runs on Win10/11 and Mac.

Alan

Some very true words there Alan

I stuck with Alibre for my design as I've used it for a number of years and did not fancy learning something else, When I got the CNC their CAM option was very expensive so I looked elsewhere. They now have a cheaper option but a bit limited.

So I went with F360 for my CAM and it is a bit of a pain if I have done all the CAM for a part and then need to change it. This either means importing a revised .stp file and starting again or if the alteration is minimal I'll muddle through altering the model in F360 design.

As maybe 5% of what I make at the most is on the CNC I can live with that at the moment.

Edited By JasonB on 07/04/2022 10:17:34

Cloud first. The advantage of a local system is the owner retains full control, which scores high whenever privacy matters. The disadvantage is the owner is responsible for security and back-ups and has to manage them competently. Not easy, especially if the system is multi-user. Cloud transfers much of the hosting problem to a professional provider, who, in theory, does a better job than Joe Public. In practice, it's hard to tell how good or bad a Cloud system actually is: they do get hacked, leak information, go down, and lose the backups! And the advantages aren't always fully available. Although Cloud technology enables world-wide connectivity, the Fusion licence happens to be per country. (Probably doesn't matter to most of us and might be fooled by connecting via a VPN)

The extra time CAD frees up for the workshop point is a good one, but it's the other way round for me. Whilst I enjoy workshop time, it's not my main goal. For me, tools are more a means to an end. For what I do, saving workshop time by getting my act together with CAD is a good thing!

It depends on where the hobby takes you. Little need for CAD when building a well-known locomotive from a set of error free plans when all the 'words and music' present and correct. CAD scores big time when doing new design, or the words and music are pathetic, or the drawings are riddled with mistakes. Better to find out a set of locomotive frames are wrong in CAD than to discover the boiler and valve gear won't fit after many hours milling and drilling.

In software engineering, rule of thumb is the cost of fixing a problem multiplies by ten at each step between design and live running. Same is true in mechanical engineering: a drawing mistake costing a few quid to fix at the time can break a company if the error gets past production and forces a full recall with warranty and liability claims.

I say CAD is worth considering, but there must be as many workshops who don't need it as do. However, CAD gets more useful to me every time I use it, and I might end up using it for even simple jobs. Getting started was difficult, but new benefits keep appearing now I drive CAD reasonably well. It's flipped from wasting large amounts of my time to saving more. Just like learning to drive a car!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/04/2022 10:51:46

Hi Alan

Fusion 360 will do for me.

It’s about 10 years since I last used TurboCad so I have to start fresh anyway.

Some good points Dave, not everyone needs CAD.

In my experience once the bug bites it evolves in the quest for new knowledge and new skills and as a result easier ways of doing things. Now when faced with a new project the components are all entered on Fusion but then it branches into what is only and can only be CNC and so heads to the CAM module, what might become CNC but needs proving with a 3D print and then what is just a straightforward 3D print. The 3D print is then a couple of clicks away from running. If there is a PCB involved the board can be created and the box modelled to suit.

I have never had a Cloud storage problem nor for that matter a loss of date from a Fusion crash, not that I have experienced very many crashes and if it should happen there is always a Fusion created Cloud backup waiting in the wings.

I have used Fusion in UK, France, US and New Zealand together with many airline lounges on my travels. I have just logged on with my laptop as normal with no issues so to date I have not encountered any of the licence restrictions you mention. I think the licence is probably defined on the user login details and less so the location.

The other thing I didn't mention is having all the functionality in one package means you learn to use a common interface and because you are using it more in using the various modules it remains more familiar through more common usage. If you are running separate apps for CAD and CAM etc you have each app user interface as a separate unique GUI with it own quirks and learning issues and familiarity becomes less well retained as each app is used less often in day to day activity.

It is all a matter of personal circumstances and personal choice. I was hoping my thoughts would give new starters in the hobby food for thought and help along the way.

Hi Dave

Sorry we doubled on the messages.

I hope you enjoy using Fusion and I recommend looking at the YT sites I mentioned to get you up and running. If you ever want to compare notes send me a PM or contact me via my blog.

Alan

Thank you Alan, I will do, Very early days yet. For what I want to do, 3D printing will be the way to start.

Roughly equivalent to me saying I've never been fined for parking on a double-yellow line! It's true I've done it a fair few times over the years without repercussions. However, my good luck doesn't mean it's legal or that no-one else will get a ticket.

I wonder how many Fusion users have read Autodesk's Terms of Service carefully? I haven't, because as a hobbyist I'm unlikely to work abroad, infringe commercial use restrictions, or allow others to use my account. By not reading them I'm taking a small risk because the Terms of Service are complicated and nested. Some apply to particular products and licences, others apply to all Autodesk products. I estimate it would take me an afternoon to navigate all of them, and longer to understand what exactly they mean. If I was buying a commercial licence for a large organisation, I'd almost certainly consult a contract specialist and lawyer.

However, if Autodesk are like other software vendors, they only get excited about licence conditions when they realise they're owed money! Or it comes to their notice the product is being seriously misused. Men in sheds are far less likely to get into trouble with Autodesk than a Registered Company or a Government Department.

I like Fusion360 very much, finding it intuitive. My main objection is the cloud managed licence, which lets Autodesk restrict functionality without notice: this can't be avoided by sticking with an earlier version because you don't have one - it's a cloud managed product.

Functionally F360 will do everything David Clarke wants and more. It's David's potential commercial use of the hobby licence that might cause bother, but its a small thing: he could stay legal by learning on the free version and buying a licence later if it turns out to be necessary.

Dave

Alan's comments about having integrated software did ring some bells with me. As the owner of a small business (some decades ago) it was wonderful to move to MS Office - after some years of struggling with the costs and incompatibilities (both internal and with customers) of using products like 2020, Wordperfect, Dbase etc. Suddenly there was a file standard that cost less and which rapidly became universal. Of course many folk still hated MS, including my Lady admin staff who were addicted to WP. However, I don't see quite the same advantages with using Fusion for everything.

Going back in time, I wanted to move on from TC 2D. I'd already tried Fusion 360 and decided it wasn't for me. MEW had been promoting Alibre (the six month free deal) but I'd discovered Solid Edge CE in early/mid 2020. It seemed to meet all my current and future criteria and was free to download & run locally. I started my SE journey.

Shortly afterwards, Fusion (Autodesk) announced changes to their free license to take effect (mostly) in October 2020. A quick reminder of the changes that they announced back then (e.g. some 18 months ago)

• Project storage is limited to 10 active and editable documents
• Exports are limited to a small number of file types. Thankfully this still includes STL files but alas, DXF, DWG, PDF exports are all gone
• Perhaps most importantly to the Makerverse, STEP, SAT, and IGES file types can no longer be exported, the most common files for those who want to edit a design using different software.
• 2D drawings can now only be single sheet, and can only be printed or plotted
• Rendering can now only be done locally, so leveraging cloud-based rendering is no longer possible
• CAM support has been drastically cut back: no more multi-axis milling, probing, automatic tool changes, or rapid feeds, but support for 2, 2.5, and 3 axis remains
• All support for simulation, generative design, and custom extensions has been removed

They initially also stopped STEP file export but re-instated that after much outcry online. This all happened pretty much overnight and users had no choice in the matter. I know that there are 'work-arounds' to most of these issues but they are still there - and further changes can be implemented at any time & overnight.

I also take the point about the Cloud being pervasive these days but I see a real difference in accessing my Bank account online and doing the same for my (many hours of) CAD work. The Bank can change their online access to my money but ultimately cannot deny me access to it (I sincerely hope!). I'm not sure that's true of any work done in Fusion 360?

I back up my systems (including all my CAD work) locally but should I want to keep back-up copies sync'ed with online storage, then I have a (free) 5Gb 'OneDrive' that will do so. As I use a laptop, accessing my work from anywhere is a bit of a red-herring - and I don't need to log-in every two weeks to keep any work I've done "offline" either - all my work is done and stored "off-line".

So SE meets my current needs completely. It is a fully parametric, commercial standard 2D/3D CAD system that fully supports 3D Print and which also supports sheet metal and weldment designs. It has comprehensive CAE facilities too. I have a number of friends who (like myself) dabble in electronics, who have produced PCB 'gerbers' for me. None of them use Fusion to do so. I've produced (using SE-CE) .STLs for them to 3D print enclosures in exchange. I'm really not sure CNC (CAM) will be something I will ever need (or can afford).

So, we get back to Horses for Courses. I remain delighted with Solid Edge - I believe others would find it fits their needs very well too. I understand the popularity of Fusion 360 but I'll keep pointing out that there are excellent alternative 3D CAD systems available, that may suit some peoples needs better.

Regards,

IanT

I think I will dig out my old Turbo Cad 3D version 21. Sounds a lot less trouble.

Assuming I can find my licence code in 20 years of back emails.

Whichever of the better (more capable) 3D CAD systems you choose David, all will involve a good deal of time and effort, which is why once you've invested that time and effort, you become somewhat biased towards that particular system. Fusion was the first commercial grade 3D CAD to be made available for 'free' and it's gained a large following.

As a long-term TurboCAD user, I tried to use TC's 3D capabilities and decided it wasn't able to compete with modern parametric systems. If you want to make your articles of broad interest, then obviously using one of the free commercial CAD offerings make good sense. Fusion 360 is the most popular of these products but has it's potential downsides (as does Solid Edge of course).

I think your desire to write about 3D CAD, then 3D Printing and go on to CAM (CNC) is very ambitious, certainly if starting from little actual experience with a modern 3D CAD - but I certainly would not want to discourage you!

However, you have (of course) already made up your mind in this area.

Regards,

IanT

Let that be a lesson to us all - never confuse the customer.

Having said which, I must point out that no-one recommended the version of TurboCAD sold in 2014!

If there's any intention to move later to anything more modern, a word of warning about TurboCAD and other 2D-centric packages. The different mindset needed causes many to come unstuck whilst attempting to switch to newer 3D CAD. Hurts experts more than novices because experts come massively skilled with a bunch of techniques the software doesn't support or need, and the expert blows a fuse because none of his tried and tested 2D methods work. TurboCAD is a good choice if you already know it, or it fits your way of thinking. Lots of people like it!

Dave

I have not made up my mind.it is just that I have quite a few drawings in d for and turbo cad format I want to access. Most of what I want to do can be done with 2D and add the z axis manually.

I have a lot of industry cad cam experience but out of date.

I thank I started out with draftc, a shareware program from 20 odd years ago.

David,

"draftc" or "Draft Choice"? I started with Draft Choice from Trius Inc about 25 years ago. Trius, at that time, also produced AsEasyAs, a Lotus123 spreadsheet clone. Both programs are still available via the internet along with free licences.

Draft Choice was available for either DOS or Windows, but I found that as Windows "progressed" - haha - so Draft Choice became more and more unreliable until I was forced into upgrading, my eventual choice being DesignCAD 2000. DesignCad is still available, but is not easy to find, especially in the UK. The reason for my choice of DesignCad was that it appeared to be the nearest to Draft Choice. I did try TurboCad v. 4, then v.6 & v.7 but could not get on with them after the simplicity and ease of use of Draft Choice, the final straw being when TurboCad crashed my computer requiring a complete re-setup as if it was a new install. Having said that, I am aware that plenty of people do find TurboCad very usable.

Peter G. Shaw

It's all very well harking back to 20+ year old software, but David wants to write articles for a modern audience, so in my opinion, the articles should be relevant to readily available software that will appeal to the target demographic, who, by definition, are dipping their respective tootsies into the CAD/CAM scene.

John

David - whilst Solid Edge supports a number of different drawing types for 3D (parts, assemblies etc) - it's 'Draft' documents are essentially just 2D drawings and you can import your existing TC work into SE Draft format using .DXF files. SE Draft documents also support 'layers' which you should find very useful when coming from TC.

I've imported some of my TC drawings in this way and it's generally worked very well, although SE quickly highlighted how many 'un-joined' snaps I had in my older TC work. With some of my more complex TC drawings (where I had everything in a single model) it did help to save a simpler version that contained just the object I wanted to model in 3D. Once imported into Draft, you can modify/save your .DXFs in native mode using SE's 2D 'Sketching' tools (which are provided only in the Draft mode). However, these tools are pretty much the same as those you use when 3D sketching, so do not then need re-learning. You might find this a simpler route to get to know a new CAD system before diving straight into the full 3D works - a half-way house so to speak.

There are also features within SE that will take 2D 1st/3rd angle drawings and convert them straight to 3D drawings but that's still a bit beyond my current paygrade I'm afraid. Generally, I've found it easier to just import the most detailed 2D 'face' directly into a 'Part' document and then simply modify/extrude it manually using the 3D tools. Very easy to do with simpler things like loco frames etc and it can save a deal of work.

I don't know what Fusion is capable of in this area (in terms of DXF import/2D drawing etc) - others will have to advise you. All these modern systems are very capable but they do differ in the detail I imagine.

I certainly think this approach might be better than trying to use retrograde/old "shareware". Have a look at my link at the beginning of this thread to see the pros/cons of SE. You may prefer to use Mac or Linux for instance, in which case SE will not be for you. But Solid edge has much to recommend it and may be a very good fit in your case!

Regards,

IanT

I'm somewhat surprised that nobody has mentioned a fundamental difference between F360 and all the other top-of-the league CAD systems. The difference is that, as far as I'm aware, F360 is the only system that incorporates bottom-up and top-down design paradigms. All the others use bottom-up.

In the bottom-up system, each part is modelled in it's own file, and the complete model is created in an assembly. Parts and assemblies live in individual files. Contrast this with the top-down system where all the parts are modelled in the same file, where they are also assembled. F360 supports both systems.

This is why the 10 active file limit is not such an issue a some make out. Even then it's only a couple of clicks of any unlimited number of files to make them editable again.

With maybe 50-100 parts in a stationary engine that 10 active file limit could be 1000parts.

Those that are not active and editable can still be opened and viewed without having to do anything.

Edited By JasonB on 08/04/2022 07:13:21

I don't think your assertion is true Gary - I think 'Top Down' vs 'Bottom Up' is probably more just about how you decide to approach your design work, although I'm certainly a bottom up kind of guy!

CAD basics: Top down modeling (3dcadworld.com)

However should I ever need/want to do 'Top Down' - then Solid Edge can certainly do so.

How to Create a Top Down Assembly | Solid Edge (siemens.com)

I suspect this will be true of other commercial CAD systems too, given it's uses within a Team environment.

Regards,

IanT