Aircraft General Discussion

Hello Everyone, Would anyone like to see the two emails, below?

I don't know how to post them. Could forward them to an email address.

Vulcan to the Falklands

B17 survival story

Regards, Bear..

Sorry Bear, the conection is'nt getting through here. I also notice that there seems to be nothing in your photo album. I'll have a look on broadband in the next day or so, they sound interesting. Ian S C

TOP SECRET, well that did'nt happen! The latest rebuild in NZ is a Hawker Tempest II, with a Bristol Centarus engine, It arrived in NZ about mid 2012. It was built in 1944, and after the war, went to the Royal Indian Air Force, went back to the UK in the early 90s. I think they would have liked a Tempest V, But there are only 10 Napier Sabers left, and at their best they were not the most reliable engine. Apparently the reason the Tempest V got built was because the Minister in charge of purchacing aircraft had something against Bristol, (perhaps he had shares in Napier).

The aircraft should roll out in the next couple of years, and is tro be based in NZ, it has a US owner.

Ian S C

Loved the Ardmore mossie film ( and the other films on you tube). The originals were built a few miles from here. My next door friend was at school in the 1940's. One day he was given some left over balsa from mossie building, he took it into school and told his teacher that our planes were now being built from balsa! Teacher gave him a clip behind the ear for being silly.

When the production ended there was a lot of thin ply left over which was used for all sorts of home projects around Hatfield.

Billy.

Enjoyed the Mossie and just watched it on another site.

Amazing was talking to a chap in his 90's last week I used to see at jazz meetings some years ago and he trained in Canada to fly Mosquito's.

As a top pilot he was asked to stay and train other pilots but he wanted to fight the enemy.

He was mourning that most of his flights were low level.

A small World these older chaps have such tales to tell another one used to drive Black Fives then worked in the machine shop at Fords.

Such interesting people.

Paul

The latest on the Burma Spitfires came up on the radio news about a hour ago, one box full of muddy water, more info to come I suppose.

There is one ex Burma Spitfire flying in NZ. a relative (grandson?) of Alan Deere WW2 Spitfire ace has it. Ian S C

Billy

Re. using balsa wood in aircraft - It was ... in the VC10! It was used to make a 'sandwich' of thin aluminium sheet bonded to a balsa filling. Very strong and good load bearing qualities. I had a largish piece which I used bits from for model aircraft - originally part of the toilet floor! Balsa does come in a vast range of quality and is a HARDwood! I've got a couple of bits in my balsa store which could probably be shaped to use as axes!

Rgds

Bill

Bill

Yes balsa is a hardwood but is cut down before it matures. Like any other log the timber needs grading for hardness which covers a larger range in balsa than most other commercial timbers. In the last few years balsa has started to be used in decorative panels, lots of slices glued into panels then stained. It continues to be used as a good thermal insulator which also has structural value.

Some of the ideas behind the early wooden aircraft structures have seen a rebirth in the large scale use of wooden I beams in construction using ply and solid woods. Very strong yet very light and a very low carbon cost.

Billy.

Balsa has also been used in modern boat building, it is sandwhiched between two skins of fiberglass, another variation of this system, and more common is replacing the balsa with a closed cell foam plastic. With the origional open cell foam, and the balsa, if the outer skin was holed the whole interior became water logged. I know a little of the closed cell foam construction as my brother in law built a 16m catamaran, and used it for ocean cruising, up to Fiji, and on to Austrailia.

The important part of the design is the two skins, the balsa, or foam is there to keep them separated. There is a metal equivalent in skins on aircraft with honey comb cell separatingthe skins making a strong but lighter structure.

Last airshow in NZ this weekend, for the Mosquito, just a bit north of Wellington, at Masterton, it will be flying with two Vampires, and a Venom, along with about seventy other aircraft. Ian S C

Hi all

re balsa

Some years ago, British Rail Civil Engineers used large baulks of pitch pine, about 12" square by 3' long (I write in code so that only my generation understands) as packers when jacking heavy objects on track (such as derailed wagons). Of course this doesn't happen any more except on preserved railways.

Anyway, H&S was worried about fragile staff lifting heavy things, and in my testing Lab at Derby I was asked to test some blocks made of balsa. The blocks were made of end-grain laminations, the whole encased in GRP. They were very light compared to the blocks in use and easy to handle.

We found that they performed very well with loads up to about 20 tons (more code) suitably distributed, but subject to the need to apply the load on the end grain and not across it. The blocks were marked accordingly.

The idea was abandoned as... guess which way they got loaded when in use on track.

Jim

Thor Heyerdahl made a career out of ocean-going balsa boats !

Pretty low-tech though!

Neil

I read somewhere about footwear in a factory in Holland, H&S wanted steel toe capped boots, the workers wanted clogs, so they averted a strike by agreeing that both types of foot wear should undergo the same test, a weight of a certain size dropped from a designated height, the clogs won, the steel caps collapsed. Ian S C

prably old news but just run across this

link

Some years ago, British Rail Civil Engineers used large baulks of pitch pine, about 12" square by 3' long (I write in code so that only my generation understands) etc

----

I've been using cheap household insulation blocks to make huge stacks of indoor shelving recently

They weigh almost nowt and have good tension

Mine are orange, not white like the link but from the right outlet a tenner gives you a bucketload of material to work with

Search and ye shall be rewarded... look for space board

Edited By Ady1 on 15/02/2013 00:21:25

Jason - old news indeed.

W/C 'Taff' Holden was the Senior Eng Officer at Lyneham and (for reasons best known to himself!) was conducting an engine run in a Lightning on the (short!!!) out of use runway. The aircraft was minus its bang seat and IIRC he was perched on a box!! He, inadvertently, took the engines through the reheat gate and it jumped the chocks. Deselection didn't work, the runway end was rapidly (very!) approaching so he pointed the thing skywards. He had, apparently, completed a very basic flying training course some time previously and the adrenaline no doubt helped to get the beast vaguely 'under control'. A couple of somewhat 'interesting' circuits and he managed to get it back on terra firma.

As I recall, it was to be about 5 years later that he suffered the repercussions of his little adventure - what is now termed PTSD. Mind and body combinations can be uncontrollably weird - I speak from personal experience - wouldn't recommend it to anyone!!

Rgds

Bill

Well reading the forum postings..various accounts of the "bangseat" being out and " taff sitting on an orange box" follow...

Having/claiming no knowledge of the matter beyond that thread...

The "truth" was the seat was in and SAFED..so at least he had somewhere to sit.....Taff latter in the thread confirmed much of the "facts" and laid to rest the" orange box" story..

Doesn't detract from a cool head in the situation..no radio either..no headset!...

The fault being investigated was traced to a wiring loom error ( a substituted harness from test ver. of lightning)

Still great tale...

rgds

Must be spring at last; I've just watched the first aerobatics display of the season by a Spitfire over my house. It was a later Griffon powered variant.

We also had a Chinook fly over the end of our road yesterday; he was certainly pushing the 250 foot limit, if not below it. I hope he was in contact with Bourn airfield, as he was well within their ATZ.

Andrew

Thats alright Andrew, my town ana surrounding area is a designated low flying area, has been since WW2, now days only a very occasional C 130, but when the AF had some machines with a bang, you sometimes got a A 4 Skyhawk at a couple of hundred ft. A now deceased friend took it to the limit while doing a solo flight in a Tigermoth during training during the war, he got his under carrage hooked in the power wires, and learned how to do a belly landing when he got back to base, ended up on a charge, finished the war flying Lancasters. Ian S C

Heard on TV news last night that the RAF museum is going to attempt to raise a Dornier 17 from the Goodwin sands, if they succede, it will be the only one of its type. They intend to treat the salt water corrosion by spraying it with citric acid for about 18 months. Ian S C

"Look! Theres no sign of corrosion!"

"True, but there's no sign of the airframe either..."

Actually aluminium reacts only slowly with acids and citric is pretty gentle. I hope they check it regularly, though. Nothing compared to de-salting and PEG-ing the Mary Rose.

Neil