Patents

Just tried to find an answer to the following question - if I find a good idea on a machine and then design a version for my own machine, would I infringe the original patent (if it was covered by a patent) by making my own version?

Mark
This has been discussed many times on this forum suggest you do a search for patent

Bob

I don't think they would bother with a dood making something for personal use

However, if you're a company or a business and you nick someones idea so you can make more money and profit then that's when legal issues would begin to arise

Courts tend to look at specific questions

"by taking this action was there a financial gain motive behind the offending party" kinda stuff

Damaging someones idea may also be covered

If you make something for yourself and keep it to yourself then fine

If you put your build plans on the internet for the whole world to see, for free, then a patent holder would have a case against you

It's common sense really

Don't stick a finger in someones eye... and you won't get a punch on the nose

simples !

Edited By Ady1 on 06/04/2013 11:24:48

Bob, I would if I could work out how! The search only seems to apply to the titles and it returns nothing at all. The site search also returns a blank?

Mark

Mark,

1. The search box on the home page is much more effective

2. A Patent discloses the design [which is why some firms don't use them] ... anyone is free to build something to that design; but not to commercially exploit it.

Hope that helps

MichaelG.

Mark,

When you ask a question which involves legal issues, it is essential to specify where you live, as the laws may vary.

In the UK, the law on patents is covered by The Patents Act 1977. S 60 (5) provides a list of acts which will not be regarded as infringments of a patent, and item (a) applies to the case you raised:

(5) An act which, apart from this subsection, would constitute an infringement of a patent for an invention shall not do so if -

(a) it is done privately and for purposes which are not commercial;

You should be fine to make a version of a patented device at home for your own use. Note that both things must be true: the act is done privately and for purposes which are not commercial. However, I doubt you would get into trouble for showing it to your friends!

You can find the legislation (including all later amendments) at **LINK** if you are feeling the need to cure your insomnia.

David

David

David,

For clarity I think it's the making which need sto be private (i.e. you make it uyouself , not pay someone to do it for you). In the UK there's no problem with telling people what you've done as long as you don't use it to make money, or to produce or provide goods or services which are sold.

Neil

Neil,

Good point; I was guilty of being slightly tongue-in-cheek. It does not seem to be entirely clear exactly what the Act means by "privately". If it simply means "not for profit" then it seems to be redundant as "purposes which are not commercial" covers that. If you paid someone to do it for you, then surely they would be doing it for commercial purposes, and woud thus be infringing. Subsection 5(b) exempts acts done for research and does not include the "privately" bit. Sometimes it can be hard to fathom the subleties of parliamentary draughting, it seems to be designed to create work for lawyers.

David

Just don't tell anybody, seems the best idea to me.

Mark,

1. The search box on the home page is much more effective

2. A Patent discloses the design [which is why some firms don't use them] ... anyone is free to build something to that design; but not to commercially exploit it.

Hope that helps

MichaelG.

Mark.

You can protect the design or concept without taking out a patent; a manufacturer would need to infringe that if doing so without permission. The designer or holder of the design copyright can elect to sell or license the design for someone else to make the product that incorporates the design feature.

In doing so, the copyright holder is required to notify the Intellectual Property Office [new name for the Patent Office] so that they are aware of the changed circumstances.

Design registration costs £60 initially for the first 5 years and is renewable for the next 5 years at roughly twice that cost, and thereafter in stages up to a maximum of 25 years.

Patent protection is a good deal more expensive.

Regards Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 06/04/2013 15:46:52

How will the original patentee find out you have copied his idea?

Chris Gunn

Does it still apply that if a very big company pinches a patent, or registered design, the patent holder has to be very rich to do anything about it ?

More than 90% of all patents granted to home inventors prove in the end to be completely worthless .

My hero - Prof. Pat Pending

Neil

Mark,

Earlier this year, I had reason to investigate the copyright issues. I had intended to make a batch of items, as a production engineering exercise, to a design that had been published in a magazine.

I had originally thought that because the design had been published in a magazine, all copyright issues became null and void.

I decided to contact the magazine and ask for advice and through them, was put in contact with the author of the original article. I was open and honest about my situation and explained that I had already started work on the batch and asked for some advice on how we might resolve the issue. It turned out very well for both the author and myself and I am now able to complete the batch with a clear conscience.

I have always believed that honesty is the best policy and the case above would tend to prove this. I can only agree with Gray's comments that it would be better to seek advice from the original copyright/patentee and not from some bloke in the pub.

The worst possible outcome of contacting the copyright holder is that they say no - hardly the end of the world is it? In my case, the outcome was achieved with little fuss and an exchange of e-mails and one phone call. I have never met the man but hopefully will one day. I feel as if I have found a friend and would urge anyone in a similar situation, to do as I have done.

Steve.

Edited By Steamer1915 on 07/04/2013 18:53:07

Edited By Steamer1915 on 07/04/2013 18:59:28

There is'nt such a thing as an "International patent" ..you have to apply in each individual country

Got to agree with your comments as I am going through patent applications myself at the moment. One application that does bug me is the European Patent.....if granted, you then have apply in all Euro members countries.....I had the USA patent granted......that covers the whole of the USA. As stated patents are extremely expensive to obtain.......think twice before you go into anything like this ........

It's interesting to see how quickly, and how far, this thread has departed from the original question posed by Mark C.

MichaelG.

A patent is a set of exclusive right granted by a sovereign state to an inventor or their assignee for a limited period of time, in exchange for the public disclosure of the invention. An invention is a solution to a specific technological problem, and may be a product or a process. Patents are a form of intellectual property.

A patent was originally a state-sanctioned monopoly on manufacture.

The modern system allows the originator of an idea to patent it, even if he hasn't got a clue how to bring it to market.

An example of this is how Savery's rather dodgy water pump gave him rights over Newcomen's atmospheric engine.

Not my argument, it's one advanced by H Stafford Hatfield in the late 30s.

Neil