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milling vices

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david lockwood12/06/2011 20:03:20
41 forum posts
Hello every one, I have just been out in my workshop and have finally realised the cause of some of my problems when trying to mill square.
 
I wont bore you with the saga but I at last realised that the non moving jaw of my vice moves when it is tightened up enough to hold the job when milling. i put a dial indicator behind it and mesured 20 thou of movement whilst putting on more torque then was really necessary, just for the purpose of the test .
 
I must say this is a fabricated vice which came with the mill. I have seen some toolmakers vices sold by Arc Euro Trade and Ctc Tools which look the same as each other, the principal of these vices seems to be that the moving jaw is pulled downward and prevents jaw lift. Could the rear jaw still tilt back under the pressure?
 
if any one has had experience with these or if you can recommend a vice to fit on a dore westbury i would be very grateful
 
regards David
Stephen Benson12/06/2011 21:16:51
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203 forum posts
69 photos
Well I can recommend the Emco machine vices not cheap though, but they are low profile and will last a life time.
Vertex ones are half the price and my Vertex dividing head is well made but I have no personal experience of Vertex vices
John Coates12/06/2011 22:37:07
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558 forum posts
28 photos
I bought a Vertex K4 at Harrogate and am very happy with it. It's transformed my milling as it is far more substantial than the 2 1/4" car boot one I was using before and fits my Chester Champion mill brilliantly. The ability to rotate helped me when making a tangential tool.
Martin W12/06/2011 23:28:20
940 forum posts
30 photos
Hi
 
I bought a SOBA milling vice from Warco item 8900, usual disclaimers, and have been very satisfied with it. It looks and feels well made. It clamps up securely and the jaws don't jack up or move out of line when tightened. I particularly like the fact that the threads are enclosed and won't get covered in bits from whatever is being machined etc.
 
Cheers
 
Martin
CJW13/06/2011 10:05:50
10 forum posts
Hi David,
 
I use toolmaker's vices on my mill. I have a 3" width bought from Arc Euro Trade and three smaller ones which I use either independently or in conjunction with the larger vice. They make excellent milling vices. Just a little more fiddly to tighten than the standard type, but without the problems of jaw lift.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
 
Dusty13/06/2011 21:02:04
498 forum posts
9 photos
Jaw lift is a problem you get with all milling vices (to a greater or lesser degree). In order for the moving jaw to move there must be clearance. The longer the moving jaw the less this is apparent, provided the vice is adjusted properly. When I purchased my K4 vice I spent several hours in making sure that it had minimum clearance on the moving jaw. This jaw should be quite stiff, as opposed to slack. I don't mean you need a torque wrench to move it. for most jobs it will produce acceptable results. I will sometimes use the old trick of interposing a length of round bar between the moving jaw and the workpiece (horizontally)
Gone Away13/06/2011 21:49:21
829 forum posts
1 photos
I'm having trouble picturing this. Whereas most seem to be talking about the common lifting of the moving jaw upon tightening, OP David stated "the non moving jaw of my vice moves when it is tightened up.

On my vices, the fixed jaw is part of the vice body. It's hard to see how it could lift. It might, if it has screwed on facing pieces if those pieces are loose I suppose. The only other thing I can imagine is that the construction of the vice is extremely weak.

Maybe I'm missing something.
Andrew Johnston13/06/2011 22:20:41
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
I wondered that too, if the supposedly fixed jaw is moving 20thou then I suspect the vice needs recycling. The OP mentions that the vice is fabricated; may be that indicates it is home made rather than bought?
 
Just out of curiosity I thought I'd measure my main machine vice, as the fixed jaw is not integral with the body. I tightened the vice against two parallels as tight as I could, using the manufacturers handle. I could just detect some movement of the fixed jaw on a 0.01mm DTI, may be a needles width, so less than a tenth of a thou in real money. The movable jaw lifted by 1 division, 0.01mm, or 4 tenths of a thou in real money. Waaaaay better than than the vice it replaced where the movable jaw lifted between 10 and 20 thou depending upon how tight the gibs were.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
JohnF14/06/2011 09:09:30
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1243 forum posts
202 photos
Hi David
I to use an Emco vice, given excellent service for over
20 years, only grumble would be the scales are photo etched rather than
engraved so you need to be careful it is clean before rotating the vice on
the base.

Buy quality you won't regret it in the long term.

Regards John"

david lockwood14/06/2011 21:55:43
41 forum posts
hi thanks for the replies every one, may be i have confused matters by mentioning jaw lift and the flexing of the suposedley non moving jaw i do not realy need any advice on how to remedy this as as Andrew suggests it will be recylcled. i actualy think it will be ok for a hand held vice on the drill press where it will not need to be tightend up as much, also it was home made by the gentleman i bought the mill from. I am a little concerned about bringing down the makers work i do not want to insult any one so in his defence the 20 thou of movement comes with a very forceful tightening of the handle, more then when using it. i really just wanted peoples advice on other vices i have been looking at the tool maker vice type but i was concerned when looking at the base of that design it looks more like hollow box section than a solid casting. so if any one has used one do they flex? i have looked at some of the vices sugested by others above and they look nice the emco one i saw on ebay seemed a little expensive at £180 i only paid £350 for the mill so it seemes a little disproportional possibly i am wrong
 
thanks again for all the replies
Gray6214/06/2011 22:44:07
1058 forum posts
16 photos
I too baulked at the cost of a decent milling vice and made the mistake of buying on a budget. I have since ditched the 'budget' vices.
 
For small to medium sized work, I have been using the DH1 vice from Warco, and with the soon to be available high jaws, I suspect this will become my vice of choice. Its capacity and holding capability belie its modest footprint.

For larger jobs, I invested in some extremely heavy duty vices similar to those supplied by Kurt in the USA, these are used for heavy milling of large components.
For a smaller Mill, the vices produced by Soba or Vertex are a suitable alternative.
Avoid vices which offer multipkle axis of adjustment unless you have a specific need to machine compound angles, as each adjustable angle adds to the instability and flexibility of the vice.
 
For small parts, the precision vices sold by ArcEurotrade and Chronos amongst others are very useful, and can be held in a larger vice where necessary.
 
regards
 
Graeme
Andrew Johnston14/06/2011 22:46:58
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
I was under the, possibly mistaken, impression that toolmakers vices are intended for precision grinding and maybe a little light milling. They are not intended to be general purpose machine vices. That may explain why the base is a box section.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
 
On edit: Graeme has mentioned the name, so I can now say that my main machine vice is a Kurt D688. However, it is far too big for a Dore-Westbury, and they are not cheap! Kurt do a slightly smaller version, but perversely it is more expensive than the bigger vices. All to do with sales volumes I expect.

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 14/06/2011 22:50:48

david lockwood14/06/2011 23:02:51
41 forum posts
looks like it's going to be an expensive one then, would any one have a guide price for a decent vice?
 

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