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1440 lathes

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elanman24/05/2011 13:38:32
47 forum posts
4 photos
I am looking for a new or good second hand lathe of the 1440 size. There seems to be a range of new chinaman lathes of about the same spec but varying vastly in price from Warco/chester up to Gate and Prince. Is there a difference in quality between them?
Or I could go the second hand route but the youngest square head Colchester is now about 18 years old and not a lot cheaper that the new chinaman and could be very worn.
Views, comments please.
Cheers
John
Gray6224/05/2011 14:26:36
1058 forum posts
16 photos
Hi elanman,
I bought my 'Chinaman' as an ex demo from Warco. It's a GH1330 so slightly smaller than you are looking for, but so far, I have been veryhappy with it. The gears all seem to be good quality and suitably hardened. I did strip it down, clean it and flush the gearboxes but other than that it has not needed anything done to it.
 
I've jus notcied that there is a Warco GH1440 on home and workshop machinery site
 
regards
 
Graeme
Hugh Gilhespie24/05/2011 15:26:33
130 forum posts
45 photos
Hi John
 
I bought a Colchester Student 1800 recently. From the serial number it is about 1976 vintage but it is still in excellent condition. I did spend quite a long time looking for a good'un and bought this from another home user in a private deal at a reasonable price. Not a lot cheaper than the dealers pricing which was around the £2.5k mark at the time I bought but I was happy that I was getting a machine in excellent condition with a known history and plenty of life left. I went this route as I wanted a machine to use without worrying about whether it was 'properly' set up or not. I'm not expert enough to take on refurbishing a lathe and it does seem as if this may be required with a Chinese machine - although lots of people do report very good experiences with them straight out of the box as it were. There is a pic of mine in my folder on here.
 
Hope this helps, Hugh
Gray6224/05/2011 16:26:43
1058 forum posts
16 photos
The Chinese machines 'out of the box' are generally very acceptable. With discussion with the supplier, most, if not all concerns/issues can be resolved prior to delivery. I found a couple of issues with my machine which required minor adjustment and Warco engineers were more than happy to talk me through the best procedure. My machine has a build date in 2004. I do not know if the newer machines are better or worse however, my experience with Warco and Roger in particular is that they are most helpful in resolving issues with their machines. I am fortunate htat they are local to me so if I have a problem, I can go and talk to them, that said, their telephone support is very good (in my experience).
All said, I have had dealings with Chester in the past and they also provide good support. I do not want to present a biased view, I have simply chosen Warco as they are local to me and therefore convenience dictates...
The Chinese built machines represent good value for money, they are not Harrisons or Colchesters or DSG's but you need to evaluate your requirements against cost, spares availability etc etc.
At the end of the day the choice is yours, on my budget the middle eastern route was the best option given that a Harrison M300 solid bed generally sells for over 2500, without accessories...
 
Pay Ur money, take Ur choice
 
regards
 
Graeme
 
elanman24/05/2011 16:59:28
47 forum posts
4 photos
Graeme, Hugh,
Thanks for your replies.
Perhaps I should have said that my current lathe is a Colchester Master round head from 1968, I have had it for some 20 years so it's time for something newer. I know a good second hand Colchester would be the best way to go BUT I am never that lucky when buying machinery, thats why I am looking at a new chinaman. I also know the price of Colchester spares!!!
 
Cheers
John

Edited By elanman on 24/05/2011 17:01:21

mgj24/05/2011 17:14:09
1017 forum posts
14 photos
I wonder if there is a lot of difference in quality between makes of Chinaman. I bought one off The Engineers Toolroom, and some said that that was a quality version.
 
I must admit the price was reasonable, but looking at other lathes by Chester and Warco,I cannot see much difference in finish etc, and one or two minor differences in design detail. Of course, one doesn't know the difference in terms of accuracy, so I can only say that this one, after a bit of careful setting up and some fiddling with a cross slide gib, has been absolutley spot on, and you can hit dimension =/-.002" all day every day.
 
There is no doubt that my Chinaman wouldn't stand the rigours of production forever like a Harrison, but then it will never have to. If I had wanted a top grade production type lathe, I would have bought that instead.
 
Chester has a very good 61/2 - 7" that might be worth looking at. They called it the Coventry I think. Warco were out of stock in that size this morning on their website- I happened to look,
 
(By setting up I mean shimming under feet to get it set straight in response ot a turning test. I doubt you can drop any lathe on the floor and expect it to turn dead straight as is, can you?)

Edited By mgj on 24/05/2011 17:16:18

Edited By mgj on 24/05/2011 17:16:55

John Stevenson24/05/2011 19:26:53
avatar
5068 forum posts
3 photos
Best guide when buying a machine of this size is weight.
More weight = more mass = more rigidity.
 
I went down this exercise about 9 years ago when I wanted another lathe to supplement the imperial CVA.
 
I took a trip to Excel Machine Tools in Coventry and had half a day with them trying out three different lathes of the same ilk under power, Two made in Taiwan and one Czech lathe made by TOS but badged up as an Excel.
 
Very very hard choice, price wise only £250 covered the difference and to be honest at this level that should not be a deciding factor.
 
The Taiwanese lathes were better finished and quieter than the TOS and more universal as regards swapping between Imperial and metric.
 
I chose the TOS because at the end of the day it weighed nearly twice as much and was on MT4 in the tailstock and 40mm up the bore as opposed to MT3 and 38mm.
 
I wanted an all metric machine so this one fitted in nicely. In retrospect it's been a good machine, two breakdowns in 9 years, clutch shaft sheared, simple job to make a new shaft, only three diameters and the feed lever roll pin sheared.
 
This machine has been used daily in a busy jobbing shop and not been molly coddled at all. Negative point if any was the paint on the apron and saddle only lasted a few weeks before it all came off. I was a bit miffed at one coat of paint direct onto the metal but then woke up to the fact that this lathe had been bought to do a job of work, not to be polished.
 
At the time it cost £5400 fully equipped, two 8" three jaw chucks [ I hate changing chuck jaws ] 6" three jaw, 8" 4 jaw, four keyless tailstock chucks, centres, and steadies.
This was delivered to the door - literally and at the time it was the same price as a Myford 254 with no extras and delivery.
 
As a benchmark before buying this I rang Colchesters up and asked the price of a Master which fully loaded was close to £11,000.
 
A few weeks lather they rang back to see if I was still interested and I told them I had bought the TOS.
 
Oh dear very bad move apparently, according to them the TOS would devalue like crazy.
So I asked what a S/H master would fetch after say 10 years and was told about £2500 if still decent, so a loss of £7,500
 
I reckon this TOS is still worth say £1400 because of the tackle with it and it's still a spot on lathe, so a loss of £4,000.
 
The guy from Colchesters still couldn't see that I would be loosing more than the new price of the TOS.
 
Incidentally the TOS came with a set of clutch plates, clutch selector fork, pair of half nuts and a new cross slide nut in the toolkit and they are still there.
 
John S.
Jon25/05/2011 01:20:14
1001 forum posts
49 photos
Might know where theres a Coventry with longer than standard bed in Walsall, its had no use the chap prefers his Harrison 11".
 
I dropped lucky on an M300 last year, they do exist without paying the going rate. Needed for daily production with imperial/metric switching = no change wheels to faff about with.
My last Harrison was worn when i had it 11 years ago, now its fit for the scrap. Above chinese in same environment would give three months.
elanman25/05/2011 19:20:15
47 forum posts
4 photos
John S,
I've seen on other forums that you are keen on your TOS lathe but for my "compact" workshop it's just too big. The 1440 or 1340 chinaman lathes have quite a small footprint and so does a new M300/Student.
Graeme, sent you a PM.
Thanks all for your comments.
Cheers
John
 
Jon25/05/2011 23:17:42
1001 forum posts
49 photos
The footprint may be small for its size on the M300 but with swarf tray on looking at it sticking out 39" min from wall and 59" long for standard length.
 
I swore blind the next lathe i would have metric and imperial screw cutting by flicking a switch or just dialling in. Meaning Colchester or Harrison, same group.
Will need to run it off a 5.5hp rotary convertor, very noisy or the 10hp digital plug and play to retain all its controls and functions.
 

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