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Drill chuck keys

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Cornish Jack29/09/2010 18:46:00
1228 forum posts
172 photos
Hi
Have recently bought an unusual drill chuck. It is very high quality and apparently unused but minus the key. Is there a standard  set of key sizes/specs or how are they specified? I wouldn't like to use one of the 'universal' 4 way jobs on anything this well made.
TIA
Bill
Dinosaur Engineer29/09/2010 19:20:46
147 forum posts
4 photos
Why not take chuck to your local Cromwell tools ( or DIY store) or equivalent merchant and try a few keys ? Most quality chucks have the manufacturers name on them . A quick Email should illicit the local stockist and price.
Cornish Jack30/09/2010 19:18:37
1228 forum posts
172 photos
Thank you, DE. Could well do that but most of the DIY type keys are not exactly precision items!! The manufacturer of this one (MSE) have (I reckon) long since ceased trading.
Will keep searching.
Rgds
Bill
Dinosaur Engineer30/09/2010 20:51:57
147 forum posts
4 photos
Sorry I can't help any further. I've never heard of MSE chucks - were these UK made ? . A Google search didn't reveal anything. Most of my chucks are Albrecht precision keyless ones. If you could find a key that matches the sleeve teeth & PCD on the chuck then even if the centre shaft on the key is the wrong size you could either turn it down or insert a larger shaft or add a sleeve. If the teeth match is fairly close then as long as you don't overtighten , it should not damage your chuck. The sleeve teeth may be harder than the key teeth !  Seems a shame to have a good chuck waiting for a key that will never turn-up ! 
David Clark 101/10/2010 07:57:09
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi There
A good drill chuck should not need a key.
You should be able to tighten it by hand and the drull should not turn unless you force it into the job.
regards david
 
Steve Garnett01/10/2010 09:53:11
837 forum posts
27 photos
I can't be absolutely sure, but I think I've seen MSE stuff before. IIRC, they were a South London firm that was certainly operating into the 50's called Machine Shop Equipment Ltd. They used to make very high quality tooling for aircraft manufacture.
John Olsen01/10/2010 10:09:56
1294 forum posts
108 photos
1 articles
No point gettting a key anyway, it will only get lost. (Says the voice of experience!)
 
I have an old chuck lying around here, just happened to take a closer look. It say Christen Bern No 30 1/2 and has a little shield logo with a Swiss cross in it.  Hmm, looks not too bad, maybe I should clean it up and try it out. Naturally it does not have a key either.
 
regards
John
 
 
Andrew Johnston01/10/2010 10:16:56
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
A quick search on the Companies House website reveals a company called Machine Shop Equipment Ltd., which was dissolved in 1995. Unfortunately the data has been archived, so location and business area are not available on the website. There was 'phone number to call, but I'm not that curious when there's paid work that needs to be done instead!
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
simon Hewitt 101/10/2010 18:29:50
44 forum posts
10 photos
IF you are anywhere near Salisbury, go to Penny Farthing tools. They have a drawer full of odd check keys. I recently got a small lathe with 4 tailstock chucks in 3 different patterns, I got keys from all of them, and I think £5 for all 3. No connection - just a satisfied customer.
Stub Mandrel10/10/2010 22:07:59
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
In my first job we used 3/8" drills to make holes in rhododendron stumps, then poured in amcide weedkiller. Using reversible black and decker electric drills with a generator the tightening/untightening technique was to spingup to full speed then grab with leather gloved hand...
 
Don't try this at home - or yo-yo starting chainsaws, which was another speciality.
 
But why should a cheap 4-way chuck key damage a decent chuck - assuming it has a head the right size?
 
Neil
Cornish Jack18/10/2010 11:35:54
1228 forum posts
172 photos
Thank you all. Apologies for not following up on this but have been (unusually!!) busy.
 Stub Mandrel - it seems to me that using one of the 'cheapo' 4-ways etc. will likely (from past experience) keep slipping out of engagement and require excessive force. May not damage the chuck but doesn't 'fit' the quality of the thing. This chuck has a built-in prism viewer for centring plus adjustment a la Griptru to suit it to different machines. I would like to think that the original maker had supplied it with a key to suit its potential accuracy rather than a 'bog standard' device. Apologies to John 'Bogs' - apropos which, his user name ought to be 'Dog's B*****ks' given the original derivation of the two ... "Boxed Standard" for normal quality and "Boxed de Luxe" (which became 'bastardised) for the best version
Will keep looking.
Rgds
Bill
Axel18/10/2010 19:33:38
126 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by David Clark 1 on 01/10/2010 07:57:09:
Hi There
A good drill chuck should not need a key.
You should be able to tighten it by hand and the drull should not turn unless you force it into the job.
regards david
 

 I´d like to disagre, it depends on the construction. Like what thread size is used to tighten the chuck with, doubt you can make a drill sit still in any of may smaller chucks (jacobs). I´ve been told and read that we are suposed to use all three holes in the circumferance to tighten it properly. But thats just a myth that got carried away methinks. 

Stub Mandrel18/10/2010 19:40:37
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
"Boxed Standard" for normal quality and "Boxed de Luxe" (which became 'bastardised) for the best version


I like that, be it gospel or urban legend!

Neil
John Wood119/10/2010 15:38:57
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116 forum posts
Posted by David Clark 1 on 01/10/2010 07:57:09:
Hi There
A good drill chuck should not need a key.
You should be able to tighten it by hand and the drull should not turn unless you force it into the job.
regards david
 
 This makes sense although the comment from Axel re thread size probably qualifies the practice, try it and if it works for you then great. This now brings up the question as to whether keyless chucks are good replacements for keyed ones, presumably they are made to give a good grip. A changeover to keyless would certainly solve the usual "where's that darn key gone" problem.
 
Regards
John
John Olsen19/10/2010 19:38:35
1294 forum posts
108 photos
1 articles
The keyless ones are arranged so that the forces from cutting will tend to tighten the chuck. This can work well enough that it can be very hard to undo them after using a large drill. Despite that I have still had the drill turn in the chuck. One gotcha with these is that they will undo when the load goes on the other way, say if the drill is sticking in the hole and you turn the machine backwards by hand to try to free it.
 
I have three keyless ones, the smallest a genuine Albrecht, and two larger far eastern imitations. The Albrecht is noticeably better although the other two are OK, however they are not good for the smaller drills, eg a half inch chuck should not be used for drills below about 1/8"
 
regards
John
Stub Mandrel22/10/2010 19:19:40
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
I have various keyed chucks, Jacobs, Rohm, No-Name and they all work. I have two keyless chucks, both economy models. The one on a portable drill is completely useless, a bigger one I bought as a stand alone needs a gorilla-style grip to tighten. I fitted it to an MT2 shank and keep a centre drill in it.
 
The lesson, if you buy budget, buy keyed chucks.  I'm sure teh more expensive keyless ones are OK, but I have never bought one.
 
Neil

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