Very long boring bar
Chris Mate | 29/07/2023 11:20:31 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | Hi, I received the new Vertex Boring head with MT4. It measures 30mm wide by 65mm height, so I assume its called a 50mm boring head. Insert |
Andrew Johnston | 29/07/2023 11:52:12 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | The salesman is a clueless idiot. A stickout of 120mm is far too much. A rule of thumb is 5 times the boring bar diameter, so 60mm in this case. My experience of using inserts, even with a high end industrial boring head, is that they are very prone to chatter. So much so that I have reverted to HSS toolbits; as in this setup: The home made boring bar is 7/8" diameter and stickout is about 6", so more than the rule of five times. I initially used an insert boring bar, but it chattered badly, so I quickly reverted to HSS. My 50mm Soba boring head came with several HSS boring bars, all about 75mm overall, so around 40mm stickout. After grinding they sort of worked but at least they didn't chatter. Andrew |
Chris Mate | 29/07/2023 12:56:21 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | I do have a set of brazed carbide boring bars but they have fully round 12mm shanks going in boring head, the longest one is about half this ones lenght. Maybe just for fun I can try it at 150mm, if complete fail, I shorten it to longest of brazed ones lenght, try it again etc. Edited By Chris Mate on 29/07/2023 12:58:30 |
JasonB | 29/07/2023 13:25:14 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | I've not found the screws on my Soba boring head mark the shanks of Brazed tip, HSS or Indexable tools so have not bothered to add any flats. Would rather have the option to tweak their position in the boring head when needed. Looks like they just sent you a lathe boring tool, the ones for boring heads tend to be a bit different Boring heads tend to be sized by the diameter of the head so you might have a 30mm head or 60mm head depending what you call width and height. Neither of which is a standard Vertex size. Edited By JasonB on 29/07/2023 13:26:56 |
Andrew Johnston | 29/07/2023 13:34:48 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | None of my boring bars (home made or commercial) have flats. Same as Jason, none have ever been marked. The grub screws should be flat and smooth on the bearing end. The only exception are the horizontal extension bars on my commercial boring heads, which have flats. That is because they are subject to higher torque than a boring bar. If anyone doesn't know what I mean by extension bars I can post a picture. Andrew |
DC31k | 29/07/2023 15:12:53 |
1186 forum posts 11 photos | Posted by Chris Mate on 29/07/2023 11:20:31:
-Bar=S12M - SDUCR07 The 'M' in the above is the ISO code for the length. https://www.cutwel.co.uk/blog/learn-the-boring-bar-iso-code-system If you search for shorter lengths (S12 H, J, K), there are few options, hence cutting it down would seem to be a reasonable way forward. CTC Tools in Hong Kong have 12mm (metric) alternatives to the 1/2" (imperial) Glanze ones linked to above. |
Chris Mate | 29/07/2023 15:43:20 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | I refer it to a specialist in the company via sales person to investigate why they sell a Boring Bar set as this, it does not make sense the bar given with it with no other options from them regarding bars with inserts. Edited By Chris Mate on 29/07/2023 15:44:03 |
Andrew Johnston | 29/07/2023 15:50:31 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Just because it is marked Vertex doesn't mean it was made by them. It would be helpful to know where you are based and who you are buying from. Andrew |
Chris Mate | 29/07/2023 22:31:08 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | As far as I know its coming from Taiwan and its a manufacturing company |
DiogenesII | 30/07/2023 03:54:36 |
859 forum posts 268 photos | I have a couple of cut-down SCLCR boring bars that I use in the boring head - one is about 85mm long and was cut down to do work up to 50mm thick which is about 90% of boring work I expect to do on the mill, I have another 110mm long because I needed extra reach (75mm) and cutting unwanted 40mm off it noticeably reduced chatter. I still use both of them in the lathe..
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Pete. | 30/07/2023 05:20:39 |
![]() 910 forum posts 303 photos | To save time just take a photo with a rule next to it for scale, the vertex catalogue at rotagrip doesn't have a 30mm boring head. |
Chris Mate | 30/07/2023 06:20:15 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | Posted by DiogenesII on 30/07/2023 03:54:36:
I have a couple of cut-down SCLCR boring bars that I use in the boring head - one is about 85mm long and was cut down to do work up to 50mm thick which is about 90% of boring work I expect to do on the mill, I have another 110mm long because I needed extra reach (75mm) and cutting unwanted 40mm off it noticeably reduced chatter. I still use both of them in the lathe..
Its a 50mm boring head(Made in Taiwan by Vertex, it is not a 30mm boring head.. -The 12mm x 150mm boring bar goes 30mm deap in the 12mm hole (one of two + one horizontal hole) into the boring head, so there is for this bar 150mm-30mm=120mm stickout. |
Michael Gilligan | 30/07/2023 06:30:54 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | For hours of fun … try searching the Vertex online catalogue : http://www.vertex-tw.com.tw/products/products_search_list.php?Keywords=boring MichaelG. |
Chris Mate | 30/07/2023 06:47:03 |
325 forum posts 52 photos | As I understand Vertex is an American & Taiwanese effort to produce quality goods, and if I cannot afford Walter, Kennametal, Iscar which are all rediculously expernsive, my choice would be Vertex over Chinese, I have of all of them, and Vertex is better than Chinese as its availability, but from what I have Walter, Iscar & Kenametal stands out as the best. Edited By Chris Mate on 30/07/2023 06:49:01 |
JasonB | 30/07/2023 07:51:36 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | From previous threads on here at least some Vertex items are made in China so you may just have a Chinese boring head made there to a good spec. |
DiogenesII | 30/07/2023 09:36:37 |
859 forum posts 268 photos | Posted by Chris Mate on 30/07/2023 06:20:15:
Posted by DiogenesII on 30/07/2023 03:54:36:
I have a couple of cut-down SCLCR boring bars that I use in the boring head - one is about 85mm long and was cut down to do work up to 50mm thick which is about 90% of boring work I expect to do on the mill, I have another 110mm long because I needed extra reach (75mm) and cutting unwanted 40mm off it noticeably reduced chatter. I still use both of them in the lathe..
Its a 50mm boring head(Made in Taiwan by Vertex, it is not a 30mm boring head.. -The 12mm x 150mm boring bar goes 30mm deap in the 12mm hole (one of two + one horizontal hole) into the boring head, so there is for this bar 150mm-30mm=120mm stickout. Yes, I think I understood that right - mine is similar, a round body 50mm dia, with same arrangement of 12mm 'sockets' for the tool to sit in that are about 30mm deep. Both my bars started 150mm long, this is too much stick-out, so I chopped the first one off so that once it is mounted in the head, the tool-tip will just pass through a 50mm workpiece before the head touches the work - like Andrew said in his first post, there is a limit to the depth you can reach with a bar of any given size and the shorter the better, so stick-out of about 4xd is just about do-able if not ideal. The other bar was needed to reach past a raised feature on an alu. alloy part, so needed a longer shank - it chattered, but sharp ground inserts, lowering the speed, and careful cuts got the job done with an acceptable (-ish) finish.
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Martin Johnson 1 | 30/07/2023 12:43:12 |
320 forum posts 1 photos | I always seem to be the odd one out, but all my boring head bars now have flats filed in. I got fed up trying to set rake and clearance by eye and finding out it wouldn't cut due to rubbing on the heel. I also had the occasional fight with burrs on the tool shanks. No such problems now. Martin
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Bazyle | 30/07/2023 13:01:51 |
![]() 6956 forum posts 229 photos | The inappropriate head/bar combination is probably a reflection of the most popular sales to thousands of small far eastern factories wanting to minimise the boring head cost while getting the depth the design calls for. Persevere with the long bar and reduced quality and you can become a certified machine tool manufacturer. |
SillyOldDuffer | 30/07/2023 14:23:26 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Michael Gilligan on 30/07/2023 06:30:54:
For hours of fun … try searching the Vertex online catalogue : http://www.vertex-tw.com.tw/products/products_search_list.php?Keywords=boring MichaelG. Judging by the website, it's a miracle Vertex sell anything! So awful I wondered if it was a fake. For a time it seemed Vertex of Taiwan don't make Boring Heads at all. Persisting, they do. Looks like they're either sold as a boxed set, with arbour, accessories and 3 or 4 boring bars, or just as a boring head, where you have to buy an arbour and bars separately. My guess is Chris bought from a retailer who paired the head with an arbour and bunged in a lathe type boring bar as part of the deal. A long bar may not be complete madness because they can be mounted vertically to bore deep holes: And a long boring bar is an asset on a lathe because the end can stick out the back. I'd either chop it down or buy a shorter bar. Neither of my boring heads came with bars. Dave
Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 30/07/2023 14:24:15 |
Michael Gilligan | 30/07/2023 14:43:00 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/07/2023 14:23:26: […] For a time it seemed Vertex of Taiwan don't make Boring Heads at all. […] .
Did my meticulously crafted link not take you directly to the search results ? MichaelG. |
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