30 Int to Morse No. 2 adaptor

I have a mill with an Int 30 vertical head that I want to use some of my existing Morse No 2 taper tooling (specifically boring heads) with. I have an adaptor but the flats that engage with the tang of the Morse taper interfer with the drawbar. I want an adaptor that is clear bored to allow 3/8 BSW draw bar to pass through and engage with the threads in the end of the Morse No. 2 boring head

Altenatively I want a soft adaptor that I could modify to suit.

Any ideas where I might obtain such an item?

Bob

Arceuro had int30 adaptors a few years back.

Looks like they still have them in stock.

They have the same problem as much such tooling, the socket is bored into an extension on the end of the Int30 arbor so they eat into the available height under the mill spindle - especially a problem with a boring head. Really one just needs a sleeve where the MT2 is bored into the body of the Int30 taper.

Does your boring head have an interchangeable arbor (many do)? If so then the best option would be to replace the MT2 arbor. Alternatively, make or buy a soft Int30 arbor and bore the MT2 socket.

It's also worth searching AliExpress for an adapter - I managed to find Int30 finger collets which are great when I need maximum available height.

In a case like this, you have to ask what commercial incentive would exist for someone to produce such a device.

A standard 30 INT to Morse adaptor is used for holding drills, reamers, etc, which have a tang on them and thus the adaptor is made to accommodate the tang.

People will not make things they cannot sell and your use case is unusual to say the least.

Since a Morse taper is non-self-releasing, why do you you feel a drawbar is necessary? What forces will be on your boring head that will encourage it to pull out of its seating? It is not a milling cuttter whose cutting geometry is such as to pull it into the work.

You say the flats interfere with the drawbar, but I guess that is with respect to the 3/8" drawbar. Could you not bush the boring head and use an M6 drawbar that will pass the flats (2 Morse has 1/4 A/F according to diagrams I have seen)?

Chuck up the adaptor you have in a lathe and poke a 10mm carbide mill down from the top end to create the space you want.

People do make what is needed

Sounds like your existing adaptor is for tang type tooling but you want the one Jelly links to which has a through hole for a drawbar

I have an adaptor but the flats that engage with the tang of the Morse taper interfer with the drawbar.

Why not simply bore out the adaptor to 3/8” clearance? End of problem?

MTs are fine when all the force is axial. With a boring head most of the force is tangential and would easily wobble the taper out.

Chronos do 1.5" x 18 on INT 30 which is a common boring head thread and would save loosing head room, other threads listed too

I'm confused.

I thought the OP wanted an adaptor to allow a tool with a male MT drive to fit into an INT30 female socket. In other words, an adaptor that fits an INT30 socket that will accept an MT taper tool. The suggestions appear to reference adaptors that work the other way round - to allow an INT30 tool to fit an MT socket.

Am I wrong?

If you follow the links in Mine and Jelly's posts they take you to adaptors with a male INT30 to fit his spindle that have a MT2 socket so not sure what suggestions you ar elooking at?

My Chronos link will save height by removing the MT2 shank from many boring heads and they can be fitted to the arobr's thread and pokes straight into the int30 Spindle nose

Many thanks to all who replied to my question. I will buy the Arceurotrade item as this seems to be the thing I need. I was sure I had seen similar before but could not remember where.

The boring head in question is a Lytton Automatic Boring and Facing Head. As far as I can determine the Morse taper shank is integral with the body of the head. I also have various odds and end of Morse No. 2 tooling by Arrand and Lussington so it is worth my while sorting this out.

Personally speaking I would not rely on the Morse taper without a draw bar especially when interrupted cuts are envisioned such as typical when fly cutting.

Bob

Yup! I was wrong.

Personally speaking I would not rely on the Morse taper without a draw bar especially when interrupted cuts are envisioned such as typical when fly cutting.

Hence my post, re providing a clearance hole for use a drawbar for the 2MT.

Hi Bob,

I am a little confused.

A. First sentence suggests tang on Morse taper interference with drawbar. Do you mean tang of MT tooling interfering with drawbar which holds INT30 in place on your machine?

B. Your second sentence suggests needing an INT30 with through hole to enable use of 3/8” drawbar to pass through the INT30 adaptor to engage onto MT2 tooling which has 3/8”whit. female thread.

Notes:

1. All the INT30 to MT2 adaptors sold by ARC have an M12 thread to hold INT30 in place.

2. All/most MT2 tooling have 3/8” or M10 drawbar thread. The INT30 adaptor has an M12 thread. So, to the best of my knowledge (which is a little rusty):

a. As long as you have a through hole in your mill head, you can make a 3/8” drawbar/studding long enough to engage directly through the adaptor into MT2 -3/8” female tooling. Similarly, you can make and use 10mm drawbar/studding long enough to engage directly through the adaptor into MT2 - 10mm female tread tooling.

b. Some machines have a captive drawbar in the mill head, to hold INT30 tooling in place. In such cases, one needs to find out and be aware of what is the thread of the existing drawbar in the machine, and how easy/difficult it is to access or change, and do you really want to. INT30 tooling do come in different female thread configurations. This is when things become interesting, and certain changes in drawbar may need to be considered.

As it stands, I would suggest reviewing the drawbar arrangement on your mill for the existing INT30 tooling, and adaptor you have in hand, before considering a new purchase.

If I am wrong in my thinking or have misunderstood something, please accept my apologies as its been a while since I looked at this product, and I am semi-retired, leaving the younger generation headed by Ian Davidson to run daily business.

Ketan at ARC

Further note..: Chronos link suggestion made by Jason is good... especially when using new boring heads to screw directly onto INT30 arbors. However, to unscrew existing boring heads off existing MT2 arbors can be difficult, as they can friction weld (for want to phrase) over time... especially if they have been involved with interrupted cuts over a certain period of use.

Much like some tailstocks the MT socket can have "flats" that engage the tang so stop the tool slipping in the taper, this would likely make the end too narrow to pass a drawbar through.

Oh… I see thank you.

Ketan at ARC

Just to clarify things.

The mill (A Fritz Werner 2.202 with matching vertical head) has a removable drawbar. It will accommodate a 1/2" BSW threaded drawbar which I use with my Int 30 Clarkson Autolock chucks. I have various pieces of tooling including a Lytton Automatic boring and facing head, a Lussington boring head and Arrand flycutter all of which are No.2 Morse taper. None of these have tangs on their tapers. The Morse taper tooling has provision for 3/8" BSW drawbar.

I have an adaptor that converts a Int 30 spindle to Morse No.2. It is designed to take tanged fittings like drill chucks and Morse taper drills. It is open all the way through but the biggest thread that will sensibly pass through is M6.

I have made a bar with a short length of 3/8" BSW thread (short enough that it will fully enter the thread of the end of the taper) internally tapped M6 so a M6 draw bar can be used. The threaded portion is Locktited on to the M6 studding so dropping the M6 drawbar through the rear of the adaptor is not an option.

You might think this is a solution to the problem, but it is not. Consider swapping between a collet chuck holding a 5/8" slot drill used to drill a hole that will subsequently be enlarged using the boring head. You need to change between the collet chuck and the boring head without disturbing the work you have carefully set up. Dropping the collet chuck is no problem as with the table lowered and the 1/2" BSW drawbar removed there is sufficient clearance to remove the Autolock. However, the problem come when you want to fit the boring head. If the adaptor is in place, it is just about possible to fit the boring head (with not boring bar installed at this stage) but the 'special M6 / 3/8" BSW drawbar must be installed 'from below. It will not go without 'flexing' the M6 drawbar.

The above is not a hypothetical situation; I have spent three days wrestling with it.

All that is really required is an adaptor Int 30 on the outside and bored Morse No.2 on the inside. Ideally it should be optimised to minimise the excess stick out from the nose of the mill. I used to have a similar adaptor that allowed Int 30 tooling to be used in Int 40 sockets.

Bob

Bob

I think there is ‘the makings of an idea’ in this thread from 2019 : **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=146603

Whether there is any conveniently available ‘thing’ available to modify … I know not.

But the point is … you don’t really need the male INT 30 … there are four tapped holes available on the spindle nose … nicely illustrated here : **LINK**

https://johnfsworkshop.org/home/processes-links/processes-removing-metal/the-milling-machine/toolholders-and-cutters-links/tapers-sizes/

It’s time for you to get the sketchbook out, or fire-up the CAD, methinks !

MichaelG.

[ hoping to get back to sleep now ]

Bob, could an adaptor 3/8 to M6 not be fitted into the taper tooling first, possibly with a shallow hex flange do it can be nipped up tight, Then your M6 drawbar would simply pass through what you already have.

Or simply get the adaptor from ARC that will allow the larger bar to pass right through into the taper tooling.