TWAIN

I have a Motic microscope camera, which I want to ‘control’

The standard Motic software does not include the functionality that I need, but my dealer contacted Motic on my behalf, and they indicated that the TWAIN driver might do what I want.

**LINK**

https://www.motic.com/As_Support_Download/d94.html

Trouble is … I know nothing about TWAIN

We seem to have folks here with knowledge of most things … So can someone please point me to a decent introductory tutorial ?

Thanks

MichaelG.

My only exposure to TWAIN is as a plugin driver for PaintShop Pro (et al) where it's used to interface with a document scanner etc. Don't know how it relates to your use though.

No real helpful .... sorry.

While you await an informed response, I understand it's a Tool With an Interesting Name.

Michael

Wikipedia tells you about all a user needs to know about TWAIN :- **LINK**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWAIN

Basically the TWAIN working group exist to create an maintain a set of drivers for interfacing between a computer and an imaging device independent of the drivers offered by imaging device manufacturers. Several imaging device makers are have a formal attachment to the TWAIN as well as creating their own driver and interface software.

TWAIN drivers tend to offer a more basic functionality than the device makers own which, especially these days, tend to have lots more in the way of bells and whistles which may or may not be useful to the individual.

TWAIN drivers generally continue to work just fine when device makers own fall by the wayside by not being updated for new operating systems.

From a user perspective its just a matter of downloading a TWAIN driver and selecting that in preference to the makers version.

TWAIN comes from a Kipling quote from the Ballard of East and West "and never the twain shall meet". Its not an acronym.

Clive

I was given to understand that it stood for "Technology Without An Interesting Name". I wonder which of the three explanations, if any, is correct.

George

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Regrettably, Clive, that tells me nothing practical

Perhaps … just perhaps … all will become clear when I install Motic’s TWAIN driver !

But my presumption was that it’s comparable with [for example] the Arduino API, in that it provides functionality when you know how to use it.

” So can someone please point me to a decent introductory tutorial ? ”

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ This is for a different camera, and is also for Windows not Mac, but it seems to give some reasonable base for my presumption:

 http://www.touptek.com/download/showdownload.php?lang=EN&id=33

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/05/2023 04:35:29

I read many years ago that TWAIN stood for, technology with an interesting name! True or not it was used for flatbed scanners at the time. I had several many years ago, I think the first one was made by AGFA the old photographic company.

Twain is just a "driver". This is a piece of software that provides the interface between a piece of hardware (typically a add-on) and software. Typically to provide a common interface across different computers and operating systems. Thus you can have a standard bit of hardware and a standard user program and only change the driver for different computers.
Some drivers, including TWAIN provide a consistent, available interface on the software side. This allows software to work with multiple different pieces of hardware  and vice-versa. For Twain an image capture application (or function in a image editing program, wordproccessor etc) only has to conform to the Twain software side definition. The program will then work with any hardware that has a Twain driver available. The hardware supplier (or a third party) just has to provide (write) a driver to "drive" their hardware and provide a software interface to the Twain standard.

For MichaelG this means he needs to find an application progarm that has the functions he wants and is Twain compatible. Sounds like this is to run on a Mac computer so there is lots of choice. I can't suggest anything as we do not know what functionality is required.
It is unlikely that a Ardunio application would support this due to complexity and amount of data. A RaspberryPI would if you want something small.

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 19/05/2023 08:54:19

Thanks for the comments, Robert

… This is a resurrection of the project that we were discussing previously [relating to that high-speed LED strobe]

The standard Motic software is very capable, but [contrary to first appearances] does not implement ‘Software Triggering’

I asked my Supplier [Pepler Optics] to investigate … Andrew had never needed to use that, so he contacted Motic on my behalf …

[quote]

Hello Michael

We have now received a reply from Motic.

The trigger function is only available with some software that allows this performance. Our Motic Image 3.0 and 3.1 do not have this option. You can find this parameter on the camera’s parameter, but it isn’t activated. Remember that our cameras are compatible with other software that you can install using the TWAIN function.

[/quote]

.

Frankly I find this disappointing !

Add to that the fact that Motic’s TWAIN driver is dated 2015 and I am rapidly losing hope.

MichaelG.

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Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/05/2023 09:28:24

[ UPDATE ]

Mission Aborted … please forget I ever asked.

I have two Mac mini computers: one with the Intel processor, one with the M1

Identical errors on both:

< bad CPU type in executable: >

MichaelG.

Michael, I searched for a TWAIN API, as I'm sure you will have, and the few I checked seemed commercial.

The Linux community, with its preference for open architecture, has a protocol for back-end operation (sounds unpleasant...), called SANE.

SANE (Wikipedia)

It may serve your needs, one user wrote his own PC version to drive TWAIN: Sanetwain however, this, too, is long in the tooth.

I have no experience with these software, but I have an old version of PSP languishing on an earler laptop, to drive a scanner. Windows 11 seems to lose certain functionality.

Bill

You shouldn't need a tutorial for TWAIN unless writing a driver yourself - it's a protocol and API allowing software to control image hardware, usually a scanner.

For end users, TWAIN is just another driver. After installation, any application on the computer that supports TWAIN can select it from a list as an alternative to other drivers. (The application controls exactly how drivers are selected.)

In the simple case, install the driver, start your scanner, and see if the scanner's config options allow the TWAIN driver to be selected. If so, it should "just work".

I think Motic have pointed Michael to the high-end possibilities of TWAIN, not the end-user stuff. Their microscope has a TWAIN driver, so Michael could program it himself.

Never looked at the detail, but I doubt TWAIN programming is beginner friendly. The TWAIN specification is here and Googling github TWAIN reveals TWAIN applications, development tools, etc. Not impossible to get into, but hard work I fear. There are the usual basic development gotchas to fix before starting work: Michael's machine is Apple, I prefer Linux and C++, and the nice example I found is C# on Microsoft W10.

What are you trying to do with the Microscope Michael? Maybe someone else's project could be adapted.

Dave

Please see my previous posts this morning 

The Motic TWAIN driver will not install on either of my Mac minis

I have submitted a support request:

[quote]

I have a Moticam ProS5 Lite [SN ########] and wish to use TWAIN for "Software Triggering"

Your TWAIN download is date-stamped 2015, and it does not install on either of my Mac mini computers ... Intel running Monterey, M1 running Ventura.

Will you be releasing an updated TWAIN driver ?

Thanks in anticipation of your kind advice.

MichaelG.

[/quote]

.

Unless and until I get a satisfactory response, the camera cannot be “Software Triggered”

… project abandonned.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/05/2023 10:59:10

.

… Which is why I asked the original question

MichaelG.

Just offering this as a general thought; I'm guessing that Moticam don't make the photosensor themselves, and maybe not even the camera module.

I had an issue when I finally tried to use an old Bresser USB microscope I'd had in stock for ages.
The supplied software wouldn't work on later editions of Windows (I appreciate you're on a MAC)

Some internet searching suggested looking at it from the USB protocol angle, and looking at the chip identifier number, to see what other camera modules might use the same optical chip, so I could try their software.

In the end I followed this article; I know it's not directly applicable to your problem, but might give further food for thought.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/microscope-video-cameras-lidl-bresser-etc-drivers-software.33107/

There is a TWAIN forum/group, but I'm not sure how active it is; It does have a section for certified driver searches, if you can find a different device which uses the same chip.
https://twain.org/

Bill

Is the driver they supplied for a a PC or for a MAC?
Drivers are device and Operating Oystem specific (but a instalation package may cover a number of OSs).

The age of the driver should not matter.

Robert.

Thanks for the thoughts, Bill

Although it is possible to spend much more elsewhere, this Moticam was a significant purchase for me.

It’s a Moticam ProS5 Lite [regret I could not justify the extra cost of the ProS5 Pro, which is faster]

Natively it has a 2/3” 5Mp sensor, with 3.45 x 3.45 micron pixels, but can also run at higher maximum speed with pixels binned.

Motic seems rather coy about revealing the identity of the sensor, but I believe it’s a second generation Sony Pregius: **LINK**

https://www.framos.com/en/sony-pregius-cmos-global-shutter

I have never yet found any non-Motic software which will run it [without resorting to TWAIN of course]

… a widespread problem with “scientific grade” [sic] cameras in general.

Having purchased the [blisteringly fast] M1 Mac mini to accompany it, I am not too keen on the idea of using another operating system.

Hopefully, Motic will come-up with a new TWAIN driver sometime.

MichaelG.

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As per the link that I provided … explicitly for the Mac

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ for the avoidance of doubt:

https://www.motic.com/As_Support_Download/d94.html

and, as regards age … that download includes two versions [for earlier and later Mac OS]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/05/2023 12:46:24

On reflection, I think this must have been what I was remembering. I mentioned TWAIN to a fellow member this morning and his thought was Sam Clemens!

Thanks to Clive for pointing us to the wiki - now I know what a backronym is.

[ UPDATE ]

Laura, from Motic Barcelona is on the case

[quote]

Dear Michael,

Thank you for contacting with Digital Support department.

We acknowledge your message and we have requested a new TWINS for MAC update version to our software engineer department.

We will come back to you as soon as we have this file available.

Sorry for the inconvenience and have a nice afternoon.

[/quote]

.

Can’t ask for a better response than that ^^^

[ even if the spell-checker does think it knows best ]

MichaelG.